New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Charwoman Gene]

Something to not forget here as well is that not all paladins are LG anymore.

In the PH, paladins are Lawful or Good.

The rest is in the DMG. Makes me happy.

 

[Traycor]

Wizards has stated that high level characters will be just as simple to make and to play as low lvl chars. My guess is that lower lvl smites will be overwritten by the higher smite and take their place. Thus the players has to decide which smiting ability they like best.

Hard choices in character progression: Win!

That would be horrible.

Most combat only lasts 5-6 rounds. If a paladin has 10 per-encounter smiting abilities then they would smite every time they attack, including AoO's. That would be plain silly.

But an upgraded smite that superceded the previous would be excellent. It would force the player to continue to make tactical choices about when to use the ability in every combat, even at higher levels.

 

[neceros]

Most combat only lasts 5-6 rounds. If a paladin has 10 per-encounter smiting abilities then they would smite every time they attack, including AoO's. That would be plain silly.

But an upgraded smite that superceded the previous would be excellent. It would force the player to continue to make tactical choices about when to use the ability in every combat, even at higher levels.

I agree that there needs to be a choice in battle. However, I want previous abilities open to later levels to pick and choose.

A better scenario would be to limit one smite per creature, or something similar.

 

[Stormtalon]

Originally Posted by Traycor
Wizards has stated that high level characters will be just as simple to make and to play as low lvl chars. My guess is that the higher lvl smites will over right the old smite and take its place. Thus the players has to decide which smiting ability they like best.

Hard choices in character progression: Win!

That would be horrible.

How do you figure? It's similar to the 3.x ability for the Sorcerer to occasionally swap out a known spell at certain levels. Also, Bo9S had a mechanic where at odd levels the 3 classes gained new abilities, while at even levels they could swap out an old ability for a different one. That was combined with a series of strikes within each discipline that were obviously upgraded versions of lower level ones, thereby allowing you to keep your core skills and powers relevant to your current level.

As far as Safeguard Smite is concerned, I could easily see a more powerful variant a few levels later that would apply the AC bonus to the entire party; an option to upgrade via power swap simply makes sense. It still doesn't lock out the choices made through gaining totally new powers (and having to choose among them); instead it helps solidify and reinforce the role that you've been building up throughout your adventuring career.

 

[Bishmon]

So let me see if I have this straight.
A paladin who heals his allies by saying a prayer=Fine
BUT...
A paladin who heals his allies by saying a prayer, while hitting something with a sword=Lame?

It's not that he's doing it while he's hitting something with his sword. It's that he's doing it because he's hitting something with his sword.

If they want to give the paladin a 1/encounter ability that lets them do a little healing or a little AC boost to an ally as a swift action, great. That way the paladin could do it whenever he wanted. Maybe his allies were ambushed and he uses the quick prayer to protect one of those ambushed allies until he can get there to help. Maybe he's in the midst of battle with a demon when he hears one of his allies in trouble, so he says a quick prayer to help him while dodging and returning attacks with the demon. That way that quick prayer for protection or healing is tied to nothing other than when the paladin thinks he needs to help protect or heal an ally.

But when that quick prayer is strictly tied to a smite attack, I'm not a fan. It just seems so arbitrary, in my opinion. If you're comfortable with the paladin saying, "Pelor, help me smite this foe, and protect Bob over there!" fine. But I don't like how he can only use this ability to protect Bob over there if he's smiting an enemy. I just don't like how they're tied together.

That's just my opinion. Hopefully I'm not wrong.

 

[Deverash]

This is not how those abilities are described. At all.

My one real problem with the power texts is its ONLY the mechanics. The descriptions of the powers really do make them or break them. But we don't have any. What we have so far is, basically, the upper part of a spell description(level, casting time, etc) + a summary of the effect.

I'm just hoping they have more description of the powers than the name. It would clear it up a lot.

 

[Kintara]

It's not that he's doing it while he's hitting something with his sword. It's that he's doing it because he's hitting something with his sword.

But wouldn't the gods prefer a Paladin doing his job and killing Evil for Good, or Good for Evil (etc.)? So his "prayers" are weapon strikes. Makes sense to me.

 

[Traycor]

I agree that there needs to be a choice in battle. However, I want previous abilities open to later levels to pick and choose.

A better scenario would be to limit one smite per creature, or something similar.

I personally like the idea of limiting what smite the player has. One paladin will be different from the next if they are forced to pick and chose between balanced abilities. I'm sure if such is the case, a paladin would have the option of taking a new smite or reverting to an old one ever few levels.

 

[paulsometimes]

This new set up actually makes me excited about the idea of playing a paladin. I think the smite which makes an enemy focus on you for a round should come a bit earlier, but none the less, all three seem reasonable to me.
A paladin, in my mind, is like a divine fighter, so it only makes sense that he receives these abilities while in combat. If I need someone that can heal at virtually any time, I'll look for a cleric.
My only issue is that if the the healing or AC bonus are because of a prayer, than shouldn't it be the DM (acting as the god) to choose which ally receives it, unless the paladin specifically says a name. I would also say that if the attack misses, the ally only receives a half bonus due to the paladin's faith wavering (cause we all know it has to be a god's fault if we fail at something )

 

[Andor]

And I'd have a problem with that also.
But being able to harness the mystic energy in a smite to cause some other effect is not the same as being restricted to smite energy as the only way to get there.
What you have described is not what I said.

True. However the Crusader from Bo9S, was the testbed for many of these abilities and he was restricted to healing through pugillation.

It could happen.