New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Badkarmaboy]

This is exactly the kind of stuff which makes me worry about 4e.

There's no link between hitting an enemy and improving the group members' ACs. There's no link between hitting an enemy and by hitting them suddenly healing your allies somewhat.

At first, 4e seemed to be very close to the kind of thing I wanted from D&D. But as time goes on, the more is revealed of the system, the more I fear that the game becomes even more of a meta-game than before. D&D used to be inspired by fantasy novels and stories, but as everyone knows it has slowly developed into its own genre. With this new edition, it seems as if the developers are really locking D&D into a world of its own completely.

And as for less complexity... Seems to me like it's all getting MORE complex by the second.

I was really looking forward to this... Now, not so much...

It might seem to be getting more complex, but that can't be stated with any certainty until we see the entire system in play.

 

[JohnSnow]

What's funny to me is I hear a lot of people complaining about the notion of a Paladin that casts spells by swinging his sword.

But the this is that a PALADIN is a divine warrior. He's not supposed to be a warrior who casts spells. All of the spells paladins had in 3e were supposed to provide a way to simulate the paladin's divine favor. Some of those abilities were handled with granted class abilities, whereas others were presented in the form of spells the paladin could cast because that was the only way the designers thought the abilities could be balanced.

Now, along comes 4e and we have a view of a few options for the Paladin's key ability that should have been "per encounter" in 3e: Smite. But it really is per encounter now rather than it being "4 times/day" with the HOPE that its use would be spread out. I imagine that your average paladin has a choice of a few smites to use - all of which cause double damage, but each of which has a different divine power (mostly "leader-y" stuff: buffs or nerfs) that they trigger.

I'm sure paladins also have many of their traditional abilities, like cure disease, or "lay on hands." The latter could be an "at-will" or "per day" ability. But in combat, the paladin with Renewing Smite doesn't have to stop fighting to lay on hands - he can channel the excess divine energy from his smite to boost one ally. By making each smite self-contained, it cuts down on the possibility of a player "forgetting" about the secondary effect. If I use "Safeguard Smite," I don't have to worry about having to remember to decide what my Smite's secondary effect is. Ditto if I use a different smite.

Essentially, smites are just strike activated spells. The paladin is channelling divine energy into a strike, and doing something with the excess. It's like they combined the ability to channel divine energy, spellcasting and the smite. Basically, I'm speculating that "Smites" are the primary way paladins channel divine energy. And that's fine with me. Paladins "casting spells" in the middle of combat has just never made a whole lot of sense.

Personally, I like the flavor and the mechanics here. However, given the hew and cry, I'm beginning to understand why WotC was reluctant to let stuff out. People are speculating wildly and, in most cases, assuming the worst. And I imagine that will continue at least until they see the system in full. Until then, things just won't make complete sense and the wild speculation will continue.

I love the internet.

 

[Gundark]

I have to say I really like the smites.

I was expecting this thread to be chok full of bellyaching...but have been pleasantly surprised. It's only been partially full

 

[Nine Hands]

To have a difference between a 1st level character and a 10th level character. To explain why 1st level character die when they attack an Adult Red Dragon, and 10th level characters might beat him.

Well with 1/2 level you have a difference of 5 points or so, plus any class modifiers they put in. I'm willing to bet that each class will have an attack/defense kicker installed (just like the defense bonuses from SWSE).

Also makes multiclassing easier too.

 

[DM_Blake]

This is exactly the kind of stuff which makes me worry about 4e.

There's no link between hitting an enemy and improving the group members' ACs. There's no link between hitting an enemy and by hitting them suddenly healing your allies somewhat.

I was really looking forward to this... Now, not so much...

Consider this post (32 posts before yours):
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3911611&postcount=145

It directly addresses your concerns.

So what's your take on viewing it this way?

 

[Sir Brennen]

I have no problem with the paladin being able to do the activities stated. I fail to see how making those activities always connected is a bonus, either mechanically or in flavor. I would prefer to make them separate - a smite and an aura, instead of a smite that happens to have a rather arbitrary aura attached to it.

Who says they're always connected? People are acting like Smite is going to be the only class ability of Paladins.

However, one benefit of tying the two together is that it definitely keeps the Paladin and Cleric abilities unique to the respective classes.

There's no link between hitting an enemy and improving the group members' ACs. There's no link between hitting an enemy and by hitting them suddenly healing your allies somewhat.

No link? Arbitrary? I think it appears this way because we are being presented with the mechanics, and not much flavor/fluff.

But to me, it seems pretty straight forward. The paladin wants a favor from his deity, the deity says, "Okay. First, do you job!"

Like a couple of others have suggested, perhaps the best way to think of it is the AC bonus, healing, etc aren't secondary effects, but the primary focus, with the smite required to activate or trigger them (Smite as somatic component was a helpful concept as well.)

Honestly, reading the article gave me a little cognitive dissonance at first, too. Even thoughts of "This feels awfully gamist..." But after going through this thread, I'm thinking I'll have no problem accepting this into my game.

Here's a thought: if normal spell-casting for paladins has evolved into this (and other abilities we haven't seen yet), what has the spell-casting ranger evolved into?

 

[JohnSnow]

Well with 1/2 level you have a difference of 5 points or so, plus any class modifiers they put in. I'm willing to bet that each class will have an attack/defense kicker installed (just like the defense bonuses from SWSE).

Also makes multiclassing easier too.

I think that's a pretty good guess. I also would bet that, like SWSE, those will overlap, but not stack. And the kickers are probably in the range of +0 to +3. That would mean they matter, but don't overrun the system...

Now, where's that spined devil card?

 

[Counterspin]

I love it. The golden wyvern thread talks about how Wizards should strip everything down to the bare bones so it's universally applicable to all settings, and then this one where the cry goes out that by not sufficiently describing how smites work, something which could vary from setting to setting, Wizards has rendered their effects inconceivable. Entertaining stuff.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

I love it. The golden wyvern thread talks about how Wizards should strip everything down to the bare bones so it's universally applicable to all settings, and then this one where the cry goes out that by not sufficiently describing how smites work, something which could vary from setting to setting, Wizards has rendered their effects inconceivable. Entertaining stuff.

And one more time...Welcome to the 4e forums!


:\

Some folks just wanna fight about it, I think, like the guy in the bar who just got laid off and he's really mad at the world.

 

[Wormwood]

Entertaining stuff.

I used to think so.

But 6 more months of this? I think I'll pass.