D&D 5E New DM Help

[DragonKnight88]

So I have tried multiple outlets to communicate with my players. We are all very strongly opinionated. I have been gaming for about 15+ years or so now. First started around 8 and played in games with friends and family for a longtime. A friend introduced me to my current gaming group who after alot of bad expeiences handed the reins over and now I am DMing our game.

The current issue I am facing is challenging my players. I am trying to avoid the player versus DM mentality. We ran into that sometimes when I was playing in a game more so then most of us are willing to admit. Here is were we are currently.

Its a home brew game. Long Intro Short, I have a war ravaged world that has been assaulted by the Titans. They have killed a large portion of the gods. My players were coming in as survivors who have banded together and are trying to build up their power base. The game right now is in an explore and acquire stage. Now for the problem. I aksed my players to setup a team that would work together. When they asked me about allowable material, I pretty much said anything was game just run it by me first. As long as we and the group can agree we will give it a shot.
We are using alignments but only because it we don't one player acts like a complete smuck.

We are on game 11 about 4 months in and while my player are not complaining. I myself have some serious problems. Here is the party. They are all 8th level.

Mystic Avatar . Which honestly at times feel like it is way to OP but then other times it just falls super flat.
Barbarian Bear Totem Weilding a Great Axe. - Super Resistant and Deals a Metric Arse ton of damage.
Diviner Wizard/Warlock - Says she is sword pact but spends most of her time at range annihilating things with Eldritch Blast and has an annoying power that allows her to swap rolls.
Multi-class Paladin/Cleric/Druid - Weird Healing/ Buffing/Burst damage Build.- Honestly she is the one I Hate the most. I didn't realize how broken it would be until now.
Rogue Assassin - I actually have no problem with this one Although I feel sorry for him at times.


So the problem.
.
The Rogue, Warlock and Barbarian I can handle.
The Mystic class is a real head spinner. and combined with this Divine Trio. I'm just not sure how to deal with it.

They annihilated a Cr 14 Black Dragon and 12 of his Kobald Guards. They then fought their way out of the lair. They were supposed to RP through the encounter and go on a fetch quest in exchange for an item the Dragon had in his horde. The Mystic for the most part acts kinda like the warlord from 4E but in this fight he pulled off an insane combo and after 3 rounds Killed my dragon with a crit for almost 30 Dice. To be fair the diviner helped with her roll swap power and after this fight he only had 4 points left and was reduced to hanging out in the background debating if he should buff our 3 melee combatants. And was relatively inactive for the remaining fights out of the dungeon. But the Divine trio is the one who really irks me. She was pissed at the mystic because he picked up the healing power when we started at level 5. After some talk he swapped it out. which honestly I could care less about his healing, because hers is way worse. At the end of the adventurering day she blows her entire spell slot load to create almost 300- 400 HP worth of healing. Its absolutely ridiculous. it lasts for 24 hours. I checked though and the power is legit. I cringe for anyone else who has run into someone playing this. Now she spends the following days only using cantrips and basic attacks, but when she is feeling frisky she will nova 3 abilities to smash a target for 50+ points of damage. And its just rinse repeat for her. I just dont know how to manage. I swear between her and the mystic they could solo entire dungeons.



My players all seem to be having fun and none of them have complained to me but im at a loss.

I don't want to kill their fun, but it feels as if I am not challenging them. They seem bored.

Any words of advice?

 

[Rhenny]

Hi DragonKnight88,

Welcome to the boards!

First and foremost, make sure you are providing lots of opportunity for exploration and interaction in addition to combat. Make the campaign about the entire world, story building and character development rather than just combat. You may be doing this already. I can't tell from your post. If it is about the story, then combat just becomes part of the story rather than the be-all-end-all.

That said, with combat throw in some surprises during combat that change the situation or the landscape. You can use natural phenomenon, traps, surprise reinforcements,etc. Use terrain and natural hazards to block access, force other spell use, even do damage. For the dragon, don't forget the lair actions (and create your own if you feel like it).

The big trick for you will be to keep the party guessing. They should never know for sure if this encounter is the most difficult encounter they will have. This is one reason why I actually hate the predictable pattern of lots of easy/medium fights leading up to the big bad. Throw two really tough encounters at them in a row! Throw in a few medium's and then hit them with another tough one. The next day, have a few easy ones, a really tough one, and then a medium one and then an easy one. Don't let them predict the pattern.

The best way to make everything less boring is to make sure there is variety and a fear of the unknown. If they fear that they may encounter the Dragon's mate on the way out of the cave, they'll be a lot more frightened even if they never even encounter it. Sometimes, just the perception of additional danger is enough to add tension and excitement.

Also, as a DM, celebrate their successes. They made decisions and built their characters because they like to win and they want to win. Using resources to win is good strategy and it feels good. Let them enjoy that. I bet if you double down and give them a very tough encounter after they've gone nova, that will go a long way toward infusing some fear and unpredictability into the game. Train them to keep something in the tank in case they need it.

I hope this helps a little.

 

[Benji]

First, the trio is wasting their time doing all that healing. 'I'll spend all my spell energy on healing you at the end of the adventuring day. Just before we take a long rest - WHICH HEALS ALL OUR HIT POINT DAMAGE.' So I shouldn't worry about that. The default assumption is that they will be totally healed each day. Maybe only point this out after the game is finished though if the character seems really OP. Also just check the multiclasser is using the 'Spell slots per day' from multiclasser guide and not using three classes worth of spells.

Secondly, If you want to really challenge them and they min-max rule at combat, stop putting in combats. Go look at tomb of horrors of white plume mountain/Tomb of tamochan design. They have very little combat and lots of punishing traps/riddles etc. Put in stuff where they have to forge alliances with people to win - if they just attack rather than talk, the alliance will fall apart.

Thirdly, They killed a CR 14 dragon and kobold guards. Why did it have kobold guards? They die in like one hit (unless you have buffed them in some way). If the creature was not meant to be killed, don't make that anything less than a stupidly hard fight. Give it troll guards. Make sure you're optimising. Did the dragon have room to fly? Because that make a massive difference to a dragons effectiveness and supposed CR. From now on, test to see how far they can go. Look at the amount of minions you put into a fight. double it, see what happens because numbers in 5e make a massive difference. Find a new baseline for normal in challenges rather than using challenge rating. Use a party of evil adventurers with similar abilities to theirs. Or even a straight up 'Evil universe version/spell copy'.


Finally, examine the dynamic between you and players. You don't want it to be adversarial you vs them but you are concerned when they stomp things flat. If they actively seem bored, then that's fine but make it's not just you who does. You also note the previous Dm had a lot of bad experiences with this very group. So maybe consider that the 'wargame style' of game is not good for you and work to change the game focus.

Sorry if my tone seems like lecturing - imagine I am instead just brainstorming live.

 

[cbwjm]

What spell/spells is the trio character using to do all of that healing and why does it last 24 hours? Also, why are they doing it before a long rest?

Boop!

 

[iserith]

How many combat challenges are they doing per adventuring day? It probably needs to be somewhere around eight that are least medium to hard or a smaller amount that includes some deadly encounters. If you are permitting material outside of the core books, expect that the CR guidelines will probably be under where they need to be for an equivalent expectation in difficulty.

Are you including exploration and social interaction challenges that have real stakes? Try putting challenges from all three pillars in one big scene and watch their heads spin as they try to prioritize and allocate their resources efficiently.

Remember also that challenge and difficulty aren't the same thing. A challenge is a situation the PCs can win or lose. The difficulty is how hard they have to work to win. Good decisions reduce the expected difficulty of the challenge. That is perfectly normal. You want that because it means their decisions actually matter. So while you can set the baseline difficulty higher in your prep, you have to set your expectations such that good decisions can turn even the deadliest combat into a much easier challenge.

I leave it others to determine if what your PCs are doing is actually above board. This may also be an issue.

 

[hejtmane]

The guards were two weak find monsters with multi attack talk about players really freaking the hits. Monsters with aoes hurt parties, don't be afraid to add ambushes. NPC bad guys with magic spells can change the fight dramatically.

Things I have done

up the AC on a few monsters etc

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[Mort]

My players all seem to be having fun and none of them have complained to me but im at a loss.

At the end of the day, this matters most. The trick now is to make sure you're happy too.

Mystic Avatar . Which honestly at times feel like it is way to OP but then other times it just falls super flat.

This is from unearthed arcana? The class struck me as a bit broad and possibly too easy to Nova. Also the interplay of powers is extremely confusing. You need to look at that ability that allowed 30 dice of damage (even if it was a crit) and see if it was done correctly. I seem to recall that mystics can pump their abilities, so maybe that's how he did it. If so, then you need to insert more encounters. Make sure he understands that novaing like this is really, really dangerous.

Barbarian Bear Totem Weilding a Great Axe. - Super Resistant and Deals a Metric Arse ton of damage.

Very tough class. Throw smaller but more encounters to counter the rage. Also consider targeting weak saves, unlike the berserker the bear totem IS NOT immune to charm. though he seems to not be a problem, so moving on.

Diviner Wizard/Warlock - Says she is sword pact but spends most of her time at range annihilating things with Eldritch Blast and has an annoying power that allows her to swap rolls.

Is the ability portent? If so, remember, the ability does not swap rolls it dictates them. As in the ability must be used before the die is rolled. As such, for example, it cannot negate a crit or replace a bad roll. It's a great ability, but make sure she's using it correctly.

Multi-class Paladin/Cleric/Druid - Weird Healing/ Buffing/Burst damage Build.- Honestly she is the one I Hate the most. I didn't realize how broken it would be until now.

Interesting, usually Multiclassing adds to versatility not power. Is she somehow spamming her Wildshape? If so, more smaller encounters. You stated she has lots of spells left. That means she's not divine smiting - this totally eats into spells, she needs more/bigger targets!

Also, a standard 8th level caster has 4th level spells. Hers are at best 3rd level.

But the kicker seems to be how many spells has left at the end of the day. It means she's not being pressed nearly enough. As a druid her AC can't be that great, certainly not equivalent to a paladin (or even a cleric) of her level. The "end of the day trick" I'm not quite getting as it seems like a lot, but even so, one long rest accomplishes the same thing so not the biggest problem, other than she has way too many spells left. . Again the answer seems to be more encounters and don't be afraid to press her.

So the problem.
.
The Rogue, Warlock and Barbarian I can handle.
The Mystic class is a real head spinner. and combined with this Divine Trio. I'm just not sure how to deal with it
They annihilated a Cr 14 Black Dragon and 12 of his Kobald Guards....

Did you use any legendary resistance or lair actions for the dragon? That tends to really throw a party off their game. A CR 14 dragon should be above this parties party grade. If they are using "weird combos" those combos need to be examined.

I don't want to kill their fun, but it feels as if I am not challenging them. They seem bored.

Any words of advice?

Use more exploration style traps and challenges.

Examine how the party so dominated the early fights and plan around that.

 

[Benji]

I agree, with Mort, I'd like to see the details of that build. It seems like something is off.

 

[pukunui]

My players all seem to be having fun ... They seem bored.

Which is it? I'm confused. If they're bored, then they can't be having much fun, even if they're not complaining yet.

I shall add my voice to the growing chorus asking for more details.

 

[Bawylie]

A quick and easy way to increase the numerical difficulty of your encounters is to recalculate each enemy's HP such that it has Max HP and also set each enemy's fixed damage to its highest value. For variance it can do it's highest damage +1d6 if you like.

At minimum, this will be harder. Whether it's any more fun, has to do with how you write challenges and how your players interact with those challenges. Seems like they enjoy blasting through.


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