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D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
I literally cant even tell if the thread is a troll or not such is the level of misunderstanding about what WoTC have actually said on the topic, and the handwringing that followed it.
Hi, I'm the Original Poster. I can guarantee that this thread is not meant to troll anyone or anything. This is meant to be a thread to discuss possible changes in a 6th edition, and definitely mostly separate from the current WotC statements. It is merely a thread discussing all the recommendations as a whole in one thread, and how D&D may be changed moving forward in future editions. They will likely change things between editions rules and lore-wise. If you don't agree with any of the changes that people have recommended, please do comment on the ones you don't/do agree with.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Your expectation of a canine playable race raises an interesting point. At what point should it be a reasonable expectation that a person’s preferred race should be made available to them because of inclusivity.

If dog humanoids don’t exist in common literature, film, or myth, should the writers be expected to conjure them fresh from the ether.

Maybe it’s better that if it feels that important to you, someone could easily publish a canine, vulpine or bovine race on DM Guild. Or maybe play a toned down lycanthrope.
Didn't Kobolds used to be dog people?
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Funny how inclusiveness has become a codeword for minmaxing and how not having a 20 strength fighter is racism.
Funny how adamant you, and all the people who liked your post, are about hating on the people who like playing powerful characters. This isn't about wanting to play powerful characters, it's more about not being punished mechanically for playing a certain race as a certain class.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Didn't Kobolds used to be dog people?

Dog-like anyway. I think I've most recently described them as lizard-dog people.

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GreenTengu

Adventurer
Wrong. All people are human because elves and dwarves do not actually exist. The whole "all people are equal" only works because only humans are people.
If elves and dwarfs would exist, as we pretend them to be in D&D, they would be different to humans, again how we pretend them to be in D&D.

That's your assertion and one that seems entirely based on ignorance. Sentient human-like beings in fiction are very clearly stand-ins for humans with the whole "not technically a human" being used only to explain away having super powers. The character Wolverine from X-Men is technically "not a human" by the definitions of his own world and has a number of features that any normal human would not have anyway. So you are arguing that he, and others like him, should be inherently treated inhumanely and no understanding of human psychology should be applied to him? Then you could have a character like Superman who is even more so definitely not human, despite appearing human in all manners-- you would argue that human rights should not extend to him? He is not a person?

I suppose Commander Spock from Star Trek is also not to be considered "a person"? Or is he only half a person? How about Lt. Commander Data? Just property, just an object I suppose.

In Sci-fi and fantasy, any time you want to have a group of people who either have abilities beyond what we do or who are visually distinct, they are just called something else. But everything about them is still understood to be functionally human except in areas that are explicitly stated to be different. Beyond that, you are always to understand them to be just as much a person as any human, not to be seen as lesser or to imply that they aren't motivated like a human. It is just a matter of expanding the concept of personhood beyond our one fairly boring animal species.

I don’t think so. You missed out the word human in your sentence. Humans are not predisposed to be stronger, smarter, more charismatic or wiser than other human ethnicities.

There is nothing colonial or pseudoscientific about dwarves being predisposed to be tougher than Elves.

Which might be, at least in part, because the concept of ethnicity ends up being based primarily on some fairly incidental physical features. Also, because the most recent common ancestor of all existing humanity was only about 200,000 years ago at most and possibly as recent as only 50,000 years ago. There used to be a greater diversity of humanity that had dramatically different physical and mental characteristics, but they aren't around any longer.

But they were still humans of a kind. It does seem to raise the question in the terms of many of the D&D worlds whether it is at all realistic to have tons of human/near-human species all occupying the same general area for thousands of years without driving one another to extinction or interbreeding to the point that one couldn't really clearly discern one from another. And it isn't even like they are solely occupying different regions of the world and never crossing paths, but they are kind of inexplicably mixed together like a big salad in most worlds.

So whatever the heightened drama is for these worlds-- their reality is still far less harsh and brutal than actual reality was. These people are demonstrably more tolerant of one another's existence overall regardless of what we see in any given story.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I do not think you need to move detailed descriptions over to setting material or get rid of ability bonuses for Dwarves, Elves, and Orcs. I think the vast majority of gains just comes from writing in a less essentialized way. I think if you acknowledge the diversity and agency of whatever game element you are talking about (elves, orcs, barbarians, monks, etc) that goes a long way. So does avoiding talking about cultures in a way that seems to buy into discredited cultural evolution theories. I mean we can just do better at this stuff and we do not need to really lose anything.

I would like to see some more flexibility built into ability score bonuses, but that is more of a game play thing for me.
 


Hussar

Legend
Wrong. All people are human because elves and dwarves do not actually exist. The whole "all people are equal" only works because only humans are people.
If elves and dwarfs would exist, as we pretend them to be in D&D, they would be different to humans, again how we pretend them to be in D&D.

And that's perfectly fine. The fact that you seem to believe that the issue is about stat bonuses simply shows how out of touch you are with what is being discussed.

I swear, these threads are about 25% actually discussing the actual issues that people have and then 75% of the time wasted on trying to calm people's massive over reactions, complete misreadings, deliberate twisting and pedantry.

When we actually stick to the issues, resolving them generally takes about 15 minutes and a couple of sentences. One really has to wonder, @Derren, what your objective is, in every single one of these threads that you comment in, why you insist on misrepresenting the issues every single time. Once or twice is simply misunderstanding, but, every time?
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Wrong. All people are human because elves and dwarves do not actually exist. The whole "all people are equal" only works because only humans are people.

If elves and dwarfs would exist, as we pretend them to be in D&D, they would be different to humans, again how we pretend them to be in D&D.

We are getting close to a world where non-human intelligence will exist. I believe that extending "people" beyond humanity is going to be necessary.
 


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