D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[Haldrik]

If someone wants to make the world better ... in a sustainable way ... it is more about planting seeds. A person may never see the harvest of the fruit. It is still necessary to plant seeds.

People need to arrive at a worldview, in their own way, in their own time, after assessing the assumptions they currently have, and sorting them out one at a time.

I feel no one believes anything for no reason. There is always some grain of truth, or something genuinely at risk. So, sifting thru the dirt to find the bits of gold before dumping the dirt, is a useful process. Albeit painstaking.

There is a temptation to make threats and to do harm to "hurry" the process. But, if one already has enough power to do harm, then one already has enough power to be impossible to ignore. So doing harm is an illusionary option. Meanwhile, the results of hurrying can achieve the goal in the shortterm, but tends to end in a different situation in the future that is much worse in a different way.

I find that if coming from an honest place, acknowledging the humanity of a person, and communicating as effectively as possible, most people hear at a deep level, even if it takes a long time to process.

For me, to have faith in the Divine, means to have faith that my efforts to make the world better, matter, even if I dont currently see the results of an effort. At least on my better days, I trust the Divine to make good from my effort.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The concerns about Gay and Trans persons, have always been around. The ancient world, the medieval world, even Victorian Britain, all remember gay and trans couples. The modern political framework mainly entered popular discourse during the sexual revolution of the 60s (1965-1975). So were part of a wider discussion about sexual ethics. Meanwhile, a modern urban economy made it possible to survive without having a large family for an agricultural economy. So new social institutions became thinkable.

I feel, the watershed moment of Gay and Trans equality was in 1990, at the march in Washington DC. From that moment on, things (slowly) became increasingly better for sexual minorities.

Recently, even socially conservative Supreme Court justices agreed that the prohibition against discrimination because of sex, necessarily included gay and trans, since what was acceptable for one gender, was denied to an other gender, which is precisely what the prohibition opposed.

So to reach this point took 30 years?! That is a long time. That is a generation.

Like technology, society is accelerating faster and faster. So, significant events will probably happen sooner in the future. At the same time, this means all of us will be struggling to keep our balance to deal with new and surprising situations.

The majority shifted over the course of less than a decade. Literally, in the mid 00's IIRC the majority still opposed gay rights, and by the mid 10's the overwhelming majority supported it.

Today, opposing it is a fringe position.

 

[Haldrik]

The majority shifted over the course of less than a decade. Literally, in the mid 00's IIRC the majority still opposed gay rights, and by the mid 10's the overwhelming majority supported it.

Today, opposing it is a fringe position.

You are probably not wrong.

But this is an example of witnessing the "harvest".

The seeds were planted decades ago.

 

[Haldrik]

It seems to me, many traditional religions still havent sorted thru the sexual ethics. Precisely because traditional interpretations of ancient texts, are sacred.

They know hatespeakers have taken certain sacred verses out of context, to misinterpret them hateful, harmful, and evil ways.

The problem is deep, because interpreting to make a verse become evil and hateful makes it seem as if the Divine is evil and hateful. So hateful interpretations defame the Divine directly.

But as groups, many traditional religions still seem to be sifting thru what the compassionate, healthier, more authentic interpretations should be.

 

[Wishbone]

The concerns about Gay and Trans persons, have always been around. The ancient world, the medieval world, even Victorian Britain, all remember gay and trans couples. The modern political framework mainly entered popular discourse during the sexual revolution of the 60s (1965-1975). So were part of a wider discussion about sexual ethics. Meanwhile, a modern urban economy made it possible to survive without having a large family for an agricultural economy. So new social institutions like egalitarian samesex marriages became thinkable.

I feel, the watershed moment of Gay and Trans equality was in 1990, at the march in Washington DC. From that moment on, things (slowly) became increasingly better for sexual minorities.

Recently, even socially conservative Supreme Court justices agreed that the prohibition against discrimination because of sex, necessarily included gay and trans, since what was acceptable for one sex, was denied to an other sex, which is precisely what the prohibition opposed.

So to reach this point took 30 years?! That is a long time. That is a generation.

Like technology, society is accelerating faster and faster. So, significant events will probably happen sooner in the future. At the same time, this means all of us will be struggling to keep our balance to deal with new and surprising situations.

Also worth acknowledging it took the AIDS epidemic and the deaths of 675,000 people in the US to date to get people to listen. Members of the LGBTQ+ community lead the fight for equality in the shadow of a systemic failure to respond to a pandemic and deserve more credit than the Supreme Court justices. It is understandable to see how people are skeptical of systems that see their lives as incidental.

 

[Haldrik]

Also worth acknowledging it took the aftermath of the AIDS epidemic and the deaths of 675,000 people in the US to date to get people to listen. Members of the LGBTQ+ community lead the fight for equality in the shadow of a systemic failure to respond to a pandemic and deserve more credit than the Supreme Court justices. It is understandable to see how people are skeptical of systems that see their lives as incidental.

I dispute that a plague was "necessary".

Rather, people were generally compassionate enough and had enough of a worldview to be able to empathize with the victims of the natural disaster.

Sometimes, empathy because of a disaster can become exhausted.

It is to the credit of humanity, that this empathy has continued to deepen since.

 

[Wishbone]

I dispute that a plague was "necessary".

Rather, people were generally compassionate enough and had enough of a worldview to be able to empathize with the victims of the natural disaster.

Sometimes, empathy because of a disaster can become exhausted.

It is to the credit of humanity, that this empathy has continued to deepen since.

I don't think the plague was necessary and it certainly wasn't my intention to suggest so in raising that your narrative overlooked the AIDS pandemic and the failed response. I'm saying it happened, and to not acknowledge it does a disservice to the dead and diminishes the agency from the LGBTQ+ people who are campaigning for things to improve while misattributing the credit for change to their audience. AIDS is an integral part of the narrative—we don't ignore the Holocaust when we talk about the creation of the state of Israel.

 

[Eltab]

There is a temptation to make threats and to do harm to "hurry" the process. But, if one already has enough power to do harm, then one already has enough power to be impossible to ignore. So doing harm is an illusionary option. Meanwhile, the results of hurrying can achieve the goal in the shortterm, but tends to end in a different situation in the future that is much worse in a different way.

(emphasis added)

'Illusionary' is the wrong word; doing harm is fully real.
Choosing to do harm to others in pursuit of your own goal stiffens resistance to your ideas. There are IRL examples in the headlines of this.
Doing harm is a self-defeating option, and delays (or prevents) achieving the goal.

With the exception of this one line, I agree with your post.

 

[Umbran]

The only difficulty I am seeing is admitting what one did, just deal with it; no need to try to imply that a person has some sort of difficulty, yeesh, ablest much.

Mod Note:

How about everybody stop making this personal. Please address the content of the post, not the person of the poster.

 

[Umbran]

It seems to me, many traditional religions...

Mod Note:

It seems to me that real-world religions (traditional or otherwise) are not a valid topic of discussion on these boards. Please stop.