D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[Wishbone]

I reject that notion. I don't agree that naming Lovecraft in a list of inspirational authors is equal to support of all his ideas, including his most repugnant ones. Just as listing Heinlein in a list of inspirational authors is not an approval of his ideas on fascism. I also disagree with the idea of discouraging people from reading books that contain racism or fascism.

We can call attention to the odious views that suffuse his works without actively discouraging reading them. And, if calling attention to that does discourage people from reading them, then that's the individual person's choice to not read him. If any of my friends wanted to read Lovecraft and asked for a recommendation, I wouldn't omit that he was a horrible racist and antisemite or that those themes are foundational to his works.

To say he's an inspirational author uncritically without mentioning his odious ideas does run the risk of reasonable people assuming D&D is endorsing Lovecraft as a person and alienating the people he was directly saying are subhuman, which paints a certain picture of who is welcome in the hobby.

It's not as if we suddenly stopped reading The Merchant of Venice or Oliver Twist because people rightly pointed out that the works were grossly antisemitic even for their time. Engaging with them as pieces of antisemitic art became part of how we read them and talk about them. Why would Lovecraft be any different?

I don't believe in cancel culture at all. Only by exposing ourselves to these works, and forming opinions about them, can we grow as people. Lovecraft remains an important author in the horror genre from whom dozens of modern writers take inspiration, most of which (or so I hope) are not horrible racists.

Author Stephen King has stated numerous times that several of his stories were inspired by the works of Lovecraft. Does that mean Stephen King supports Lovecraft's bigotry and racism?

I think this frame assumes a lot about how exposed people are to hurtful things in their daily life already. If we steer people towards offensive works without first pointing out the context and views of the author then we're not being very inclusive, nice, or accomplishing personal growth like you stated. They might miss out and think degenerate fish people are awesome and should be presented uncritically. Introductions and footnotes exist and can help people understand what they're getting into first. Or simply talking about his odious views beforehand and letting people decide if they want to read him for themselves.

If people asked for recommendations I would say you can skip Lovecraft and go straight to reading Stephen King without missing much beyond a few references that really don't matter much for the story. As to Heinlein, the only thing of his that jived with me was The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and I'm sure that's changed in the last 15 years. Better yet, read something by Octavia Butler if you really are looking to expose yourself to interesting perspectives. There's a reason Lovecraft is having a more interesting second life being recontextualized by the very people he looked down on—people are engaging with his works precisely because he's problematic. Also, that all his stuff is free probably helps.

 

[Eltab]

I'm not conversant with Lovecraft's writing. Is / are there stories about Chthulu mythos where he does not stop off to insult a chunk of the human race? If so, list those titles in the Recommended Reading appendix.

One other thought: putting a book in a Recommended Reading list and notating it "but don't read this" is self-contradictory.

 

[DnD Warlord]

D&D: Fan-Created Combat Wheelchair Establishes Baseline Inclusivity

Freelance writer Sara Thompson released a rule-set for the Combat Wheelchair, an item that makes D&D adventures more accessible and inclusive.

www.cbr.com

 

[Wishbone]

I'm not conversant with Lovecraft's writing. Is / are there stories about Chthulu mythos where he does not stop off to insult a chunk of the human race? If so, list those titles in the Recommended Reading appendix.

One other thought: putting a book in a Recommended Reading list and notating it "but don't read this" is self-contradictory.

That gets at another thing WotC could improve for "Appendix E: Inspirational Reading" in the Player's Handbook—provide some kind of context on why they recommend the individual readings and how they influenced the game design. There's very little context and it isn't that helpful as presented outside of saying, "here's a list of things we read."

This should get you started as a primer on Lovecraft, including recommended readings and adaptations: Gods, Monsters and H.P. Lovecraft’s Uncanny Legacy.

 

[Remathilis]

For inclusivity I'd go with 15 classes: 5 power sources and 3 classes in each

1. Arcane
   1. Sorcerer
   2. Warlock
   3. Wizard
2. Divine
   1. Avenger
   2. Cleric
   3. "Paladin"
3. Martial
   1. Champion(Barbarian)
   2. Fighter
   3. Hero
4. Nature/Primal
   1. Druid
   2. Ranger
   3. Shaman or Warden
5. Skill
   1. Bard
   2. Noble
   3. Rogue

This creates a class for each playstyle gimmick without a need for feat chains or power systems that confuse new players or turn off roleplayers.

My idea a bit not fleshed out.

There are four classes: warrior, cleric, rogue, mage. These classes set some basic options: HD, spellcasting progress, saves, basic proficiencies. Each class gives a pool of points to buy class features with. These features include weapon/armor proficiencies, abilities like rage, smite, turn undead, metamagic, etc. Some abilities have prerequisites like level or other abilities you need first, but if you belong to that class, you can spend your points to buy your classes abilitiesn. You can also poach off the other classes lists, but they cost more points than if you were a member of the normal class. So if your a warrior and want to pick up some spells to be an EK, it would cost you more to learn magic then if you were a mage. Some basic abilities are reprinted for multiple class lists as well.

Warriors are the primary fighting type; d10 HD, Proficient in all weapons and light/medium armor. Some of the themes provide include Fighter, Battlerager, Oathsworn, Eldritch Knight, and Marshal. You can follow the theme or do you own thing.

For Rogue, you have d8 HD and a large selection of skills to be proficient in. You can buy a lot of skill-based abilities as well as skirmish and flashy abilities. The Thief, Bard, Assassin, Ranger, and Martial Artist are options.

Mages can select Intelligence or Charisma as a casting stat and initially select either Arcane (elemental/combat magic) or Mesmerism (enchantment/illusion) spell lists. Mages can represent Wizards, Sorcerers, Beguilers, and Artificers.

Clerics are primarily priest role who can pick Wisdom or Charisma as a casting stat and pick from Divine (healing) or Primal (buffing/summoning) magic. Most options here are focused on domains to represent Life, Nature, Trickery or War, but the Shapeshifter Spiritwalker, and Pactbound reside here to.

As the game grows, new archetypes with new abilities get added to the core classes. Eventually, a fifth class (psionicist) could be added.
.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Perhaps you are having a bit of difficulty here.

The only difficulty I am seeing is admitting what one did, just deal with it; no need to try to imply that a person has some sort of difficulty, yeesh, ablest much.

 

[MGibster]

I'm not conversant with Lovecraft's writing. Is / are there stories about Chthulu mythos where he does not stop off to insult a chunk of the human race? If so, list those titles in the Recommended Reading appendix.

If you didn't know anything about Lovecraft's person beliefs, I don't think there's anything objectionable in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," "The Color Out of Space," or "The Dunwich Horror." At least nothing more objectionable than what you'd find in an R.E. Howard story.

 

[Azzy]

The only difficulty I am seeing is admitting what one did, just deal with it; no need to try to imply that a person has some sort of difficulty, yeesh, ablest much.

Ah, so you're just trying to cause conflict. Good to note.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Ah, so you're just trying to cause conflict. Good to note.

Not at all, just aiming for accountability and not offending certain groups, should be an aim for all of us.

 

[Cadence]

As a possible substitution, can I suggest that we remove H. P. Lovecraft and replace it with C. S. Lewis? I think there's a fair body of work that has been inspired by Lewis in the genre and, really, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe features a pretty typical adventuring party..

I read Voyage of the Dawn Treader and Horse and His Boy probably at least a dozen times over the years (the rest maybe only a few times each). And I made sure to read the first six books to my now 10yo (in the publication order because some of the writing itself is definitely set up for it to be read that way). I've never looked into Lewis' views of Islam, but there"s some stuff here and there (especially Horse and His Boy and Last Battle iirc) that reads about Islam worse than Tolkien's Orcs and Easterners do about the some Eastern groups in the real world Although the Last Battle (book 7) might allow that Susan could have hope as an atheist stand in some day if she fixes that (was it Gaiman who has a story addressing that) and the good ones from among the Muslim stand-ins are saved after learning the error of their ways. My son can read that last one on his own.

This might be one where picking certain books to specifically list could be happier from an inclusion stand point.