New Edition of RuneQuest

[Glyfair]

I wonder if they are using any of the 4e rules that were written by Jovanovic, McGloin, and Fink? I have a playtest copy, but obviously the book never made it to market.

I'm really wondering about this. These rights were locked so tight, it seemed nothing could see the light of day. Avalon Hill had the right to the name and that went to Hasbro (indeed, the completely unrelated Runequest that was designed has been available for free online). Chaosium/Issaries had the right to Glorantha. The magic system, IIRC, couldn't be used by either company.

 

[Maldur]

Interesting, very interesting

 

[Plane Sailing]

I never got a chance to see the first edition of this game; I got it when Avalon Hill was handling it. Many RQ fans said the AH version was not much like the original. I've often heard the original version spoken of as being somehow better, but I've never heard any specifics.

You missed a rare treat. For my money 2nd edition RQ was the greatest game system I've played with, bar none. One of the big wins it had over anything else at the time was that it did come with a lot of information about the setting including maps and history which really set the creative juices flowing. There were some clearly mechanical changes with the AH version (which I detested) and some changes which could be argued were tied to Glorantha but which I found easily transformable to other settings - the whole Cult system, for instance.

The AH version added additional complexity which detracted from the game IMO. RQ2 had all the basic skills in 5% increments and if you managed to improve a skill you were guaranteed to get your 5% (thank goodness!). It didn't use 'dodge', but you did have a special skill called 'defence' which was much harder to increase than other skills but could be subtracted from one or more attackers rolls to hit before you tried your parries.

Cults were pretty central. They replaced alignment VERY nicely in that you cult association told you what your relationships to other cultists were - allies, friends, nuetral, hostile or enemy. A party which comprised a number of cults could have an interesting variety of responses to different opponents! You start of become a lay member (a few responsibilities, a few benefits) and could then apply to become an initiate once you met the grade (more responsibilities, more benefits, reduced prices on certain spells and training etc). As your PC developed you could move along a road towards mastery of magic by becoming a Rune Priest (aquiring more and more reusable Rune Spells) or towards a mastery of the physical by becoming a Rune Lord (able to increase skills above 100%; divine intervention at this point becomes common but costly.

One of your attributes is POW (Power) and that is used in spirit duels, for casting spells etc. If your POW ever goes down to 0 (through trying to use too much battlemagic or being annihilated in a spirit duel) you are dead. No magic points, you have to use your own life force for powering those spells, so be careful!

I could talk about RQ for ever, I loved the system so much I did an Empire of the Petal Throne conversion, a Dark Sun conversion, a Fuedal Japan system and an entire science-fiction game we called 'Starquest' (Original eh?)

AH over-complicated it, BRP (as per CoC) over-simplified it. RQ2 was the holy grail and it got put in a cupboard and forgotton

Cheers

 

[Glyfair]

AH over-complicated it, BRP (as per CoC) over-simplified it.

This is the biggest myth about RQ3, that AH was responsible for the changes. Apparently, most of the changes people were complaining about were already planned before the agreement with AH to publish it. Everything from the fatigue rules to the deemphasis on Glorantha were planned.

It just happened that the agreement was reached with AH to publish it and the changes appeared in their edition. So, AH got all the blame for the changes.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

This is the biggest myth about RQ3, that AH was responsible for the changes. Apparently, most of the changes people were complaining about were already planned before the agreement with AH to publish it. Everything from the fatigue rules to the deemphasis on Glorantha were planned.

It just happened that the agreement was reached with AH to publish it and the changes appeared in their edition. So, AH got all the blame for the changes.

Heh, notice that I only blamed AH for low production values, not the rules. To be honest, I rather liked the rules, many things were codified, and made more consistent. My other gripe was the move away from Glorantha, and I am not at all sure who to blame for that.

The Auld Grump

 

[BWP]

Heh, notice that I only blamed AH for low production values, not the rules. To be honest, I rather liked the rules, many things were codified, and made more consistent.

I completely agree. Not that the 3rd ed. rules were perfect (not by a long shot), but they were a considerable improvement over 2nd ed. in just about every way, IMO (and in the opinion of most of the other guys I've played it with over the years).

My other gripe was the move away from Glorantha, and I am not at all sure who to blame for that.

Sadly that was mostly Chaosium's fault, who seemed to think (goodness knows why) that people wanted an alternative to Glorantha with their RQ gaming. However, it was Avalon Hill's fault that they didn't do anything about it either; they seemed content to let Chaosium feed them new material to publish at a glacial pace; then, when it was largely too late and most players had moved on, they appointed an editor who had no idea (and in turn teaming him with the World's Worst RPG Artist, Dave Dobyski) to guarantee that the next couple of published items were, perhaps, the worst items ever published for any RPG, ever ... until finally, finally, nearly ten years after the initial release of RQ3 we had Ken Rolston's stint at being line editor and we got half-a-dozen high-quality Glorantha items with mostly excellent artwork, all rapidly released in a row. Unfortunately by that time it was a case of too late for most RQ fans who had moved on ... and not long after that it was all over for Avalon Hill any way.

Coupled with the above was a group of talented and very active amateur publishers, from the British/Australian teams who produced Tales of the Reaching Moon, to the excellent Book of Drastic Resolutions, along with numerous others, and the mid- to late-90's were a terrific time for Glorantha and RQ players ... the ones who had persistently hung around, at least.

I think every Glorantha fan was excited by the eventual publication of Hero Wars as the new Glorantha game ... unfortunately, for many of us (certainly my gaming group) it was so unlike RQ ... or just about any other RPG, for that matter ... that while we welcomed the new information on Glorantha we were left at sea in working out how to make use of it in our ongoing RQ games .... While I'm glad to see that Glorantha still has plenty of life in it, Hero Wars/HeroQuest just doesn't do it for us. So I'm very hopeful that this new edition will yield tasty and bountiful fruit.

 

[MonsterMash]

I really loved RQ2 and pretty much abandoned 1e D&D for it back in the early 80's - might have to dig up my copy and the solo adventures I had for it to have a game again.

 

[Glyfair]

I really loved RQ2 and pretty much abandoned 1e D&D for it back in the early 80's - might have to dig up my copy and the solo adventures I had for it to have a game again.

A bit of trivia...the system for Runequest was supposed to have been based on Steve Perrin's house rules for D&D (given it was published in 1978, it must have been original D&D rather than anything after).

 

[Plane Sailing]

This is the biggest myth about RQ3, that AH was responsible for the changes.

Apologies for my over-simplification; I didn't mean to imply that AH was responsible for the changes, just using a shorthand way of saying "the AH version" i.e. RQ3.

FWIW several of the RQ3 style changes appeared in Chaosium's 'Stormbringer' too - variable increase in skills, not using multiples of 5% for skills, eliminate defence and introduce dodge etc. Didn't like those rules either

 

[Plane Sailing]

I completely agree. Not that the 3rd ed. rules were perfect (not by a long shot), but they were a considerable improvement over 2nd ed. in just about every way, IMO (and in the opinion of most of the other guys I've played it with over the years).

I'm interested to hear you say that. For me and my gaming group we thought the changes were abysmal. What were the elements that you liked much better?