New Expert and Aristocrat Core Classes

[Nifft]

I think it would be a good idea to incorporate the bonuses against mind-reading and enchantment that an Athasian Bard gets. Incorporating Bardic Knowledge (affecting knowledge of history, law, nobility and so on) and Bardic music (based on diplomacy) might also be worthwhile additions.

I couldn't justify giving 3 good saves, Martial Weapons and Bardic music abilities. I'd rather boost BAB than give Bardic music stuff, too... that sort of ability is better suited to a PrC, IMHO.

I'll go check out the Athasian version, though. The mind-sheilding sounds cool.

-- N

 

[Gez]

Incorporating Bardic Knowledge (affecting knowledge of history, law, nobility and so on) and Bardic music (based on diplomacy) might also be worthwhile additions.

Have you read the Aristocrat version I posted above ?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Have you read the Aristocrat version I posted above ?

Absolutely. But not your magic rules. I can't wrap my head around them for some reason.

 

[Nifft]

Champion: Depending on your background, this could be called "Bodyguard" or "Hitman". Normally, your cohorts can't be higher than (your level - 1). An Aristocrat isn't as limited. First, the penalty for having a familiar/mount/companion is reduced to -1. More importantly, at every fifth class level (5, 10, 15, 20) the cohort level cap increases by 1, making it possible for the Cohort to be more powerful than its leader.

(That is, a 15th-level Aristocrat can have a Cohort 2 ECL above him. This'd probably be a "special" cohort, like a dragon, or something with a template. Optional rule is that the cohort's class levels still can't equal yours, which'd require this sort of exotic cohort; this way, you don't have an Epic-level spellcaster as a cohort. But, this ability is one of the big ones, to make up for the class' weaknesses in other areas.)

Now this is interesting! Since my version of the Aristocrat also gives a bonus to Leadership score, I think I'll swipe this and allow the bonus to exceed the normal ECL cap.

Thanks!


Gez: I did like your version above, but I don't want to replace or overlap with the Bard too much -- I really like 3.5e Bards, and I'd rather remove their alignment restrictions than create a new class to compete with them.

So, my version of the Aristocrat is all about Skills, Survival and the Leadership feature. And if the Aristocrat wants Bardic Music, let him take a Bard Cohort.

-- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

There are tons of great ideas here! I think it deserves to be on the front page a while longer.

I like the idea of trading off saves and BAB. Either a rogue's BAB and 1 good save, or a wizard's BAB and two good saves.

I think I would give them a hefty bonus to resist enchantments and divinations. Maybe even +1 per level.

The abilities per level. Maybe 1 at 1st level and then at every even level. But the kinds of things that aristocrats might do. "Supervise"- each time it is taken, everyone under their immediate supervision gets a +1 to profession checks. "Critic"- gets a +1 bonus to appraise checks for all craft and performance skills. A successful appraise check gives +2 to diplomacy check to change someone's opinion about the item or performance in question. Stuff like that.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Nifft,

Is there an updated link? I was trying to find some alternative versions of the Expert suitable for player characters, and came across this thread. But I have only your summary.

I was thinking of using the DMG version, but adding a free feat at 1st level and every even level. I thought of restricting the choice of feat, but then I decided not to bother: if someone wanted to take fighter feats (to build a skillful fighter, say,) then the hit in hp and BAB should balance it against abuse. If they wanted to take metamagic or item creation feat, they are hurting their caster level by taking a non-spellcasting class; again, I don't see an abuse as really being possible.

I like your idea of making the class skills all craft, profession and knowledge skills plus 6 others. I also like your idea that the expert has one good save chosen at first level. Otherwise I'll skick with the common features of your expert and the DMG version: d6 hit dice, 6 skill points per level, simple weapons and light armor. To this I add unrestricted bonus feats at level 1, 2, 4, 6, 8... etc.

I would also allow a version that has two good saves but only 4 skill points per level. They would also give up their first level feat, and thus have a bonus feat only at every even level.

Finally, I would let expert always count as a favored class. This allows it to be a "splash" or "flavor" class.

According to UK's analysis of the core classes in his IH appendix, this would come out to about 0.9712. But I am not counting the value of flexibility; choosing what skills are class skills, and being able to choose any feat the character qualifies for. Or the value of being a favored class. Still, I think it would be less powerful than the rogue (1.09 IIRC).

 

[Nifft]

Link at top updated.

Let me know what you think of its current version -- I did some changes to make it 3.5e-happy.

Thanks, -- N

 

[harmyn]

I really like some of the ideas mentioned here. going to have to take and incorporate them into my own campaign. Very well done on the aristocrat ideas. Also like the idea of remodeling it into 1 of 3 career paths. I would definitely have to rate that idea as shway kewl.