New FAQ at Wizards - Behind the Screen with magic item creation

[Infiniti2000]

How can you not buy it? Does it not say that the creator must have the spell prepared? I don't think it could be any more explicit about who must have the spell prepared.

 

[Hypersmurf]

How can you not buy it? Does it not say that the creator must have the spell prepared? I don't think it could be any more explicit about who must have the spell prepared.

So let's take the Mask of the Skull as an example.

Prerequisites: Animate Objects (Brd6, Clr6), Finger of Death (Drd8, Sor/Wiz 7), and Fly (Sor/Wiz 3).

Can a Wizard and a Cleric cooperate to make the item, with the Cleric supplying the Animate Objects prerequisite and the Wizard supplying Finger of Death and Fly?

(A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.)

Or does it require a multiclassed Wiz/Clr who can prepare all three spells himself?

(If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item.)

Do you feel that the text under Prerequisites regarding cooperation or scrolls/wands supplying prerequisite spells refers only to creating Rings and no other magic item?

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

As Hyp said.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So let's take the Mask of the Skull as an example.

Why would we take that as an example? Is Mask of the Skull a scroll?

Do you feel that the text under Prerequisites regarding cooperation or scrolls/wands supplying prerequisite spells refers only to creating Rings and no other magic item?

Rings? What do you mean by that? I'm only talking about scrolls. Whatever the general rules on creating magical items, the specific overrides the generic. And, for scrolls, it says "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed ..." Therefore, whoever is designated the creator clearly must have the spell to be scribed. I can't even rephrase it to make it more clear. This means that the wizard can provide the scribe scroll feat, but the cleric must be the creator for the scroll of cure light wounds.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Rings? What do you mean by that? I'm only talking about scrolls. Whatever the general rules on creating magical items, the specific overrides the generic.

Which means you completely missed my point [and Hyp's as well].

The "specific," as call it, is nothing more than a restatement of part of the generic - unless you believe that the text about cooperating is meaningless for all magic items other than ring.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Which means you completely missed my point [and Hyp's as well].

The "specific," as call it, is nothing more than a restatement of part of the generic - unless you believe that the text about cooperating is meaningless for all magic items other than ring.

I must have missed your point, then, but probably because you don't seem to be responding to mine at all, either. So, are we at an impasse where one side refuses to acknowledge the other side? Either that, or you need to speak more plainly, and slowly, so that my miniscule brain can follow.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

1. The "generic" rules on prerequisites call out that, in the case of spell prerequisites, they must be prepared or known by the creator.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) ...

2. The "generic" rules on prerequisites also say, however, that items or another caster can assist by providing prerequisites - including spell prerequisites.

... or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect.

...

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

3. The scroll rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

You say that this means the specific case (the scroll rules; creator must know or prepare) overrides the general case (an assisting caster may know or prepare).

However:

4. The "magic armor" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard),

5. The "magic weapon" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard)

6. The "potion" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard)

7. The "rod" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the rod, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard)

8. The "staff" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material and XP component costs sufficient to activate the spell a maximum number of times (50 divided by the number of charges one use of the spell expends).

9. The "wand" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focuses the spell requires.

10. The "wondrous item" rules say that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item.

11. The "ring" rules hint that the creator must have the spell prerequisites known or prepared.

The act of working on the ring triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the ring’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

So, either you must accept that this is not a case of the specific overriding the general (that the scroll rules, just like every other magic item, are merely restating part of the general case) or accept that assisting casters cannot provide spell prereqs - except possibly in the case of rings, and even then, you can't use items to meet the prereqs.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, either you must accept that this is not a case of the specific overriding the general (that the scroll rules, just like every other magic item, are merely restating part of the general case) or accept that assisting casters cannot provide spell prereqs - except possibly in the case of rings, and even then, you can't use items to meet the prereqs.

Or, the third and correct option, accept the rules as written: whoever is designated the creator must have the spell(s) prepared. It may not be to your liking, but you can't just decide to ignore it. Your appeal to reason is immaterial.

So, since you can't seem to focus on just scrolls, even considering all those other items (not rings), please tell me how you can ignore the statements "...the creator must have prepared...."

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Or, the third and correct option, accept the rules as written: whoever is designated the creator must have the spell(s) prepared.

That's not a "third" option; it's the second one he gave you.

Your assumption that the scroll rule is a specific exception to the general rules is in error. The evidence points to it being a restatement of the general rule, in the context of an assumed single creator.

 

[Nail]

....or, put another way: In each specific instance (scroll, wand, etc) it does NOT mention that prereq.s can be shared. It only says that in the "generic" area. Does that mean that:

• You cannot share prereq.s....the "generic" section is just meaningless dribble, or
• You can share prereq.s; it's the same procedure for all magic items.

The second option there looks far more likely.