New FAQ at Wizards - Behind the Screen with magic item creation

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Or, the third and correct option, accept the rules as written

Yeah, for some reason you aren't getting it.

I'm not sure how to make it clearer; can anyone else help me out, here?

 

[Infiniti2000]

No, no, I get it. I just don't agree that in this one case of D&D rules, the general overrides the specific (in all other cases, the specific overrides the general). Nor do I think the mention of 'creator' in the specific item rules is merely a restatement of the general rule and allows for the general rule to override it. I see no evidence to that and in fact it leads to odd cases like Patryn earlier mentioned (i.e. a wizard 'creating' an arcane scroll of CLW).

And, the specific overriding the general does not mean that there can't be cooperation. That can surely happens as I've provided an example, and other examples are trivially generated.

So, if you say that the individual creation of item descriptions (i.e. the sections for wondrous, etc.) are the general case use of 'creator', allowing for 'creator' to actually be someone other than the person preparing the spells (contrary to the section), then are you also saying that the 'creator' is a general case wherever applied? In other words, for an item like chaos diamond, who must really be the chaotic person? By your interpretation, I'd have to say that it's not necessarily the 'creator'.

 

[Rev_Spider]

Does this mean a mithral breastplate doesn't hinder movement speed? I've been ruling that it doesn't, because the PHB states that medium and heavy armors reduce speed. But is this a quality of medium/heavy armor, or of the armors that are classified as medium/heavy?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Let's try something else.

Can a cleric provide a cleric-only spell prerequisite to help a wizard create an item using the Craft Wondrous Item feat?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure. But the cleric must be designated the creator, assuming the wizard is not multiclass.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

OK; two more.

Could a wizard make a UMD check to activate a divine scroll of that cleric-only spell when making the Wondrous Item (assume it only takes one day)?

What about an item that has, as prerequisites, a cleric-only spell and a wizard-only spell?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

No, no, I get it. I just don't agree that in this one case of D&D rules, the general overrides the specific (in all other cases, the specific overrides the general).

Your error lies in assuming that the "scroll rule" is a specific rule, rather than a partial (i.e., incomplete) restatement of the general rule. It is not that the general rule "overrides" the specific rule, but that THERE IS NO SPECIFIC RULE requiring the creator to be the one who prepares the spell in question: the "scroll rule" is simply INCOMPLETE in that it doesn't reiterate that non-creators can contribute prerequisites. It ASSUMES a one-participant creation process so as not to repeat ALL of the rules over and over and over and over again.

And, the specific overriding the general does not mean that there can't be cooperation.

It does if we accept your interpretation of the "scroll rule," since EVERY OTHER MAGIC ITEM except Rings has the same "specific rule."

 

[blargney the second]

Does this mean a mithral breastplate doesn't hinder movement speed?

That's right. "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light." (From d20srd.org)

-blarg

 

[Hypersmurf]

What about an item that has, as prerequisites, a cleric-only spell and a wizard-only spell?

Like Mask of the Skull?

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Could a wizard make a UMD check to activate a divine scroll of that cleric-only spell when making the Wondrous Item (assume it only takes one day)?

I don't see why not.

What about an item that has, as prerequisites, a cleric-only spell and a wizard-only spell?

Then, unless it's a ring, the creator needs to be multiclass.

Your error lies in assuming that the "scroll rule" is a specific rule, rather than a partial (i.e., incomplete) restatement of the general rule. It is not that the general rule "overrides" the specific rule, but that THERE IS NO SPECIFIC RULE requiring the creator to be the one who prepares the spell in question: the "scroll rule" is simply INCOMPLETE in that it doesn't reiterate that non-creators can contribute prerequisites. It ASSUMES a one-participant creation process so as not to repeat ALL of the rules over and over and over and over again.

With all due respect, that's a lot of hogwash and you know it. You're solely arguing intent and nothing more. The rules discussing magical item creation in general are clearly the general rules. The subsections for each type of item, be it scrolls, rods, et al, are the specific rules. It's as simple as that. For you to just come out and state that, "No, actually the specific rules on scrolls are not specific at all" is a logical fallacy - the name of which escapes me at the moment.

It does if we accept your interpretation of the "scroll rule," since EVERY OTHER MAGIC ITEM except Rings has the same "specific rule."

How does that negate cooperation? How is my example not cooperation? Do you disagree that other examples are trivially generated?

That's right. "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light." (From d20srd.org)

The point he was making is that mithril is a specific rule overriding the general rule on medium and heavy armor. By analogy, if the rule we are currently discussing is not a specific rule, then neither is mithril or a host of other rules.

Like Mask of the Skull?

Right.

Okay, so now enough with the hypothetical questions and snide remarks and explain to me how the general rule overrides the specific rule, without attempting to appeal to reason. Patryn and Hyp, both of you I would expect to be able to read the actual rule stated without coloring it with what you perceive as intent.