New FEAT Concept--Training Feats

[skippy_the_witch]

I have an idea for a new sort of Feat that I am thinking about adding to my campaign, and would like some other folks opinions.

Basically, Training Feats are feats that simply allow certain "linked" skills to become Class Skills for the character with this specific feat. The skills do not have to actually grant each other any sort of synnergy bonus, but are instead bundled together as part of some sort of training regimen. NOTE: A Training Feat does not grant any ranks in any of the skills listed in it's skill bundle, only allows these skills to now be considered Class Skills, with higher maximum rank and lower cost.

This sort of feat already sort of exists. In the Rokugan Campaign Book, they have the Versatile Feat, which allows a character to pick ANY two cross class skills and make them Class Skills for that character. Training Feats will grant 3-5 "bundled" skills to be treated as Class Skills for that character, BUT the skills CANNOT BE CHANGED. A Training Feat also has no effect if any of the bundled skills are already Class Skills for that character, or if they later become Class Skills due to Multi-classing or Prestige Classes.

My main reason for developing Training Feats is to allow a more flexible character type without resorting to multi-classing and prestige classes. Originally, I was developing a team of special forces types, and wondered what they would do when they needed a specialist, especially a wizard or sorcerer. You would want all of the power of a real wizard, and for such a team, he would not need the combat ability of either a rogue or fighter, just some sneak and peek skills. Thus the Commando Training Feat was created, and by natural extension, the concepts of the Training Feat.

Naturally, a character must have access to the appropriate sort of school, academy, teacher, etc to be able to take a Training Feat. Here are some example Training Feats that I can think of off the top of my head:

COMMANDO [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: CLIMB, HIDE, LISTEN, MOVE SILENTLY, and SPOT.
May be taken as a Fighter Bonus Feat.

MERCHANT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: APPRAISE, SENSE MOTIVE, BLUFF and GATHER INFORMATION.

ACTOR [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: DISGUISE, PERFORM (ACT), and BLUFF.

DIPLOMAT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: BLUFF, DIPLOMACY, SENSE MOTIVE, and KNOWLEDGE (LOCAL).

SCRIBE [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: FORGERY, DECIPHER SCRIPT, and KNOWLEDGE (LINGUISTICS).

MAGICIAN [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: SLEIGHT OF HAND, ESCAPE ARTIST, and PERFORM (ACT, COMEDY, or ORATORY; choose one style of performance).

WILDERNESS SURVIVAL [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: SURVIVAL, RIDE, CLIMB, and SWIM.

LOCKSMITH [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: OPEN LOCK, DISABLE DEVICE, and CRAFT (LOCKSMITH).

MOUNTAINEERING [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: USE ROPE, CLIMB, and BALANCE.

TEAMSTER [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: RIDE, PROFESSION (TEAMSTER), HANDLE ANIMAL, and INTIMIDATE.

INVESTIGATOR [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: KNOWLEDGE (LOCAL), GATHER INFORMATION, SENSE MOTIVE, and SEARCH.

ACROBAT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: BALANCE, JUMP, TUMBLE, and CLIMB.

That covers most of the skills listed in the players handbook. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

skippy

 

[Kyamsil]

I think the idea is cool, but it is a bit overpowered. You could potentially gain 4 or 5 more class skills with a single feat. The most that I have seen before (outside the Rokugan one you have talked about) is a feat that allows you to select a single class skill.

While this is similar to the fact that skill focus gives +3 to a selected skill and there are feats that give +2 to 2 preselected skills, I don't think that those Training feats should give you access to more than 3 class skills.

 

[FireLance]

It might possibly be balanced if the feat allowed the character to either raise the cap for maximum ranks to [level+3] (but each rank still costs 2 skill points), or lower the cost (1 skill point buys 1 rank, but maximum skill ranks are still capped at [level+3]/2).

My personal preference is for the second option as most characters would not have the skill points to pump so many skills so high.

 

[skippy_the_witch]

I think the idea is cool, but it is a bit overpowered. You could potentially gain 4 or 5 more class skills with a single feat. The most that I have seen before (outside the Rokugan one you have talked about) is a feat that allows you to select a single class skill.

While this is similar to the fact that skill focus gives +3 to a selected skill and there are feats that give +2 to 2 preselected skills, I don't think that those Training feats should give you access to more than 3 class skills.

You might be right, but the minimum should be 3 class skills, otherwise just choose Versatile Feat and suffer no restriction to choice. As for being "powerfull", Training Feats do nothing more than give a character more options on where to spend their precious skill points. Just because a skill is a class skill doesn't grant a character any more benefits then when it was a cross class skill, as they are both considered "untrained". Then again, I haven't play tested it yet, and you might be right. I may split the Commando Feat into two feats.

skippy

 

[Kyamsil]

But you have to agree in that those feats could make some prestige classes extremely easy to qualify for. There are some that have most of their prerequisites as Skill rank minimums. Those are usually intended for some classes in particular, for example: Assassin is bard/rogue/monk/other sneaky character oriented. If a fighter was to get the Commando training feat and he has a decent Intelligence score (which is most likely the case if he is interested in the assassin class) he could achieve the prerequisites for the Assassin class almost as easily as a rogue.

Another thing that comes to mind. You would want to restrict those Training feats in the same way that the new racial feats from Player's Guide to Faerun does: Only one training feat per character and only available at 1st level (when he will have more skill points and more time for training after all).

They would be balanced if they were so restricted and they affected 3 skills each (or 4 if you really want the characters to be versatile). You could also rule that if a character already has any of the affected skills as a class skill that he gains a +1 training bonus instead or that it counts as a class skill for each of his classes (if he multiclasses later).

 

[skippy_the_witch]

But you have to agree in that those feats could make some prestige classes extremely easy to qualify for. There are some that have most of their prerequisites as Skill rank minimums. Those are usually intended for some classes in particular, for example: Assassin is bard/rogue/monk/other sneaky character oriented. If a fighter was to get the Commando training feat and he has a decent Intelligence score (which is most likely the case if he is interested in the assassin class) he could achieve the prerequisites for the Assassin class almost as easily as a rogue.

Another thing that comes to mind. You would want to restrict those Training feats in the same way that the new racial feats from Player's Guide to Faerun does: Only one training feat per character and only available at 1st level (when he will have more skill points and more time for training after all).

They would be balanced if they were so restricted and they affected 3 skills each (or 4 if you really want the characters to be versatile). You could also rule that if a character already has any of the affected skills as a class skill that he gains a +1 training bonus instead or that it counts as a class skill for each of his classes (if he multiclasses later).

I have no problem with a fighter becoming an assassin or other sneakier prestige classes. Or any other base character class qualifying for a prestige class skill requirements through the use of these Training Feats. The prestige classes that are meant to be more specialized versions of a base class usually have some class ability requirement that our hypothetical fighter wouldn't be able to meet (i.e. ability to cast spells, evasion, etc).

Second, I do like your idea about limiting the availability of Training Feats, and had already planned to do so in my campaign. At first level, a character can only take ONE Training Feat, even if they would also be allowed additional bonus feats. BUT, I will also allow players to later acquire Training Feats, but they must first find a teacher, have a bonus or newly aquired feat slot, and be out of play or role play the training for at least 2 months (and probably more) of "boot camp". Since my game is a technomagic semi post apocalyptic campaign with one civilized "empire" (called the Federation), I am allowing modern style training (including university classes and modern military training). For example, this means that Federation characters can consider any Knowledge skill as a class skill, because they can go to the University and audit a class or two (plus they also have access to Federation Ether Net).

I think giving the training bonus makes the feat too powerful, but like the second idea, about the skill being considered a class skill even for multi-classing and prestige classes.

thanks for all the input, this is really helping to focus this idea into something that I will definitely be introducing into my Cursed Earth Campaign.

skippy

 

[Nifft]

I agree -- three class skills should be the limit. Here are my suggestions:


COMMANDO [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: CLIMB, HIDE, and MOVE SILENTLY.

GUARD [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: LISTEN, SENSE MOTIVE and SPOT.

MERCHANT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: APPRAISE, SENSE MOTIVE, and BLUFF.

MUMMER [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: DISGUISE, PERFORM (Acting), and BLUFF.

DIPLOMAT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: DIPLOMACY, SENSE MOTIVE, and KNOWLEDGE (Nobility & Royalty).

SCRIBE [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: FORGERY, DECIPHER SCRIPT, and PROFESSION (Scribe).

MAGICIAN [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: SLEIGHT OF HAND, ESCAPE ARTIST, and PERFORM (ACT, COMEDY, or ORATORY; choose one style of performance).

WILDERNESS SURVIVAL [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: SURVIVAL, RIDE, and SWIM.

LOCKSMITH [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: OPEN LOCK, DISABLE DEVICE, and CRAFT (LOCKSMITH).

MOUNTAINEERING [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: USE ROPE, CLIMB, and BALANCE.

TEAMSTER [Training] note: teamsters don't actually ride, they sit on a wagon
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: PROFESSION (TEAMSTER), HANDLE ANIMAL, and INTIMIDATE.

INVESTIGATOR [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: GATHER INFORMATION, SENSE MOTIVE, and SEARCH.

ACROBAT [Training]
The character can treat the following skills as Class Skills: BALANCE, JUMP, and TUMBLE.

 

[skippy_the_witch]

I think we have a winner. I really like this suggestion. Three fixed skills balances well with the already existing Versatile feat with any two skills.

Thanks loads,

skippy