New feats (considered for E6)

[Kunimatyu]

I've been doing a roundup of things considered in this thraed; in light of NilesB's remarks on how crits work, and how Improved Critical preserves weapon balance, and the persistent discussion of fighters, I am going to include Martial Veteran in E6's next version.

In the hands of a canny player, all it really does is enhance the use of 2 levels of fighter. Using Weapon Focus+Spec, Martial Veteran, and staples like Power Attack, a Barbarian4/Fighter2 can easily qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery (+2 atk/dam) from PHB2 and still have rage, completely outshining the fighter(and be only two feats behind on getting the chain to boot).

If the prerequisite to Martial Veteran was "Fighter 6", it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Ry]

I agree that Fighter 6 is the prereq I'm looknig for.

 

[comrade raoul]

In the hands of a canny player, all it really does is enhance the use of 2 levels of fighter. Using Weapon Focus+Spec, Martial Veteran, and staples like Power Attack, a Barbarian4/Fighter2 can easily qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery (+2 atk/dam) from PHB2 and still have rage, completely outshining the fighter(and be only two feats behind on getting the chain to boot).

If the prerequisite to Martial Veteran was "Fighter 6", it wouldn't be an issue.

Interesting--I bet you're right about the prerequisite, too. (Fighter 6 also helps to keep pure fighters relevant, doesn't it?) (Note that the original version of the chain--the one that included Martial Legend--tried to balance this by ensuring that only pure fighters could end up with Greater Weapon Specialization.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't allow Melee Weapon Mastery if I were running an E6 game with Martial Veteran in it--then, the fighter would completely outshine the barbarian (and pretty much everyone else in melee, too, I'd think).

 

[comrade raoul]

I've been doing a roundup of things considered in this thraed; in light of NilesB's remarks on how crits work, and how Improved Critical preserves weapon balance, and the persistent discussion of fighters, I am going to include Martial Veteran in E6's next version.

It's good to hear that! For the record, though, I'd have just named the feat "Veteran" if it weren't part of the chain.

 

[Kunimatyu]

On the other hand, I wouldn't allow Melee Weapon Mastery if I were running an E6 game with Martial Veteran in it--then, the fighter would completely outshine the barbarian (and pretty much everyone else in melee, too, I'd think).

I don't know -- compared to the barbarian, he's still missing out on +10 speed, bonuses to Fort and Will saves from raging, 4+Int skill points, and a d12 Hit Die, not to mention Uncanny Dodge.

Ignoring Weapon Focus (as everyone can get it), a fighter with Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Focus, and Melee Weapon Mastery would get a total of +3 attack, +4 damage, compared to the barbarian's +2 attack, +3 damage(1.5 Str from twohanded weapon) -- if the fighter wants to give up all the little barbarian toys for +1 attack and +1 damage(and access to Improved Critical), let 'em!

 

[Ry]

Roundup

Here's what I think are the best (and I hope the least controversial) feats from this thread.

rycanada

Restoration
Prerequisites: 6th level, ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, Wisdom 18, Healing 9 ranks, Concentration 9 ranks.
Benefit: You can use Restoration, as the spell (paying the material component), with a casting time of 1 hour.

Stone to Flesh
Prerequisites: 6th level, ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells, Intelligence 18, Spellcraft 9 ranks, Craft (Alchemy) 9 ranks.
Benefit: You can use stone to flesh, as the spell (paying the material component), with a casting time of 1 hour.

Shazman

Extra Domain Power (General)
Prerequisites: Wis 18 +, Cleric level 6, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religon)
Benefit: You gain the domain power of one additional domain associated with your deity. You may only take this feat once.

Extra Domain Access (General)
Prerequisities: Wis 18 +, Cleric level 6, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Extra Domain Power, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion)
Benefit: You gain access to the domain spell list of one additional domain assciated with your deity. This domain must be the same one as that chosen for the Extra Domain Power feat. You may only take this feat once.

comrade_raoul

Martial Veteran
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th
Benefit: When determining whether or not you meet a feat's prerequisites, your base attack bonus is treated as two points higher than it actually is, and you are treated as having two more levels in the fighter class than you actually do. (For example, a 6th-level fighter with this feat can select feats that require eight fighter levels, or a base attack bonus of +8.)

Kunimatyu

Swift Metamagic:
When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast.

Special: You must have a number of Swift metamagic feats equal to the level increase of your chosen metamagic, minus one, to take this feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Sudden feat. Split Ray, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites. This feat may be taken multiple times.

Lord Tirian

Mental Domination
You're able to subjugate certain people's mind.
Prerequisite: Having charmed humanoid with HD equal or less than your caster level.
Benefit: Choose a humanoid with HD equal your caster level or less, you have currently charmed. Treat charm person as dominate person against this person.
Special: This feat can be taken several times. It applies to a different humanoid each time.

Khuxan

CASTER TRAINING (General)
You become a more accomplished spellcaster.
Requirements: Character level 6, caster level 1 or greater.
Benefit: Your caster level increases by 4, to a maximum of 6.

PoeticJustice

Expanded Knowledge
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell known at any level you can cast from that class's spell list.

Expanded Casting
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell slot at any level you can already cast.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Martial Veteran
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th
Benefit: When determining whether or not you meet a feat's prerequisites, your base attack bonus is treated as two points higher than it actually is, and you are treated as having two more levels in the fighter class than you actually do. (For example, a 6th-level fighter with this feat can select feats that require eight fighter levels, or a base attack bonus of +8.)

Since the prereq is now "fighter level 6th", the feat can be worded much more simply:

MARTIAL VETERAN [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th.
Benefit: You may select feats with a requirement of up to fighter level 8, and with a Base Attack Bonus requirement of up to +8.
Special: A fighter may select Martial Veteran as one of his bonus feats.

 

[White Whale]

Only for the player of a Fighter character.

My point exactly. So nobody will play a fighter in E6, much the same as nobody plays suboptimal classes in standard D&D (Monk comes to my mind).

 

[White Whale]

My comments, for what they are worth:

Restoration
Prerequisites: 6th level, ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, Wisdom 18, Healing 9 ranks, Concentration 9 ranks.
Benefit: You can use Restoration, as the spell (paying the material component), with a casting time of 1 hour.

I think this is a bad idea for a feat. Taking it or not is essentially metagaming. Or rather, the DM decides whether it is needed or not. What if the player does not want to take this feat? Will the DM not use level-draining monsters?

Stone to Flesh
Prerequisites: 6th level, ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells, Intelligence 18, Spellcraft 9 ranks, Craft (Alchemy) 9 ranks.
Benefit: You can use stone to flesh, as the spell (paying the material component), with a casting time of 1 hour.

Same arguments as above.

Extra Domain Power (General)
Prerequisites: Wis 18 +, Cleric level 6, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religon)
Benefit: You gain the domain power of one additional domain associated with your deity. You may only take this feat once.

Extra Domain Access (General)
Prerequisities: Wis 18 +, Cleric level 6, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Extra Domain Power, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion)
Benefit: You gain access to the domain spell list of one additional domain assciated with your deity. This domain must be the same one as that chosen for the Extra Domain Power feat. You may only take this feat once.

There is an epic feat called Bonus Domain which is these two feats together. I don't know if it would be too unbalancing to allow this feat at 6th level, though. After all, how many deities have 3 feats worth having?

Martial Veteran
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th
Benefit: When determining whether or not you meet a feat's prerequisites, your base attack bonus is treated as two points higher than it actually is, and you are treated as having two more levels in the fighter class than you actually do. (For example, a 6th-level fighter with this feat can select feats that require eight fighter levels, or a base attack bonus of +8.)

I'm strictly against having feats which in themselves do nothing functional to the character. This is a blank feat until you take a feat that you now qualify for. And is there really that many feats with requirements of Ftr8 or BAB+8? I could only find one worth taking (G. W. Focus).

Swift Metamagic:
When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast.

Special: You must have a number of Swift metamagic feats equal to the level increase of your chosen metamagic, minus one, to take this feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Sudden feat. Split Ray, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites. This feat may be taken multiple times.

Isn't this strictly inferior to all the Sudden feats?

Mental Domination
You're able to subjugate certain people's mind.
Prerequisite: Having charmed humanoid with HD equal or less than your caster level.
Benefit: Choose a humanoid with HD equal your caster level or less, you have currently charmed. Treat charm person as dominate person against this person.
Special: This feat can be taken several times. It applies to a different humanoid each time.

I see little use for this, except for aquiring slaves for the PCs...

CASTER TRAINING (General)
You become a more accomplished spellcaster.
Requirements: Character level 6, caster level 1 or greater.
Benefit: Your caster level increases by 4, to a maximum of 6.

Practised Spellcaster already exists.

Expanded Knowledge
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell known at any level you can cast from that class's spell list.

Modified Extra Spell

Expanded Casting
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell slot at any level you can already cast.

Modified Extra Slot


I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of what you're doing is already done. Why go through all the hassle of redoing it?

 

[Kunimatyu]

My comments, for what they are worth:

I think this is a bad idea for a feat. Taking it or not is essentially metagaming. Or rather, the DM decides whether it is needed or not. What if the player does not want to take this feat? Will the DM not use level-draining monsters?

I do feel there's some value to this argument. Now, making 1-2 feats that grant additional uses of the Heal skill (ideally, ones involving some expensive components) that cover all the basic status conditions, those are a little less metagamey, since you can be reasonably certain that -someone- will get paralyzed/poisoned/ability damaged/etc. (EDIT: Or perhaps a few Unearthed Arcana-style incantations, so it doesn't require a feat to learn at all, even if there are temporal and material costs to be paid.)

I'm strictly against having feats which in themselves do nothing functional to the character. This is a blank feat until you take a feat that you now qualify for. And is there really that many feats with requirements of Ftr8 or BAB+8? I could only find one worth taking (G. W. Focus).

The big ones are GW Focus and Improved Critical, with Melee Weapon Mastery from the PHB2 as an additional highly significant choice. Another way to accomplish this same change is to alter the requirements for the feats mentioned above, but this is a more concise way to do so. It would be nice if the feat provided a small benefit -- any thoughts on a good small ability for a general-purpose Fighter feat like this?

Isn't this strictly inferior to all the Sudden feats?

Unless there's a Sudden Split Ray, Sudden Searing Spell, Sudden Twinned Spell, well, no. In addition, you can take the feat multiple times for the same metamagic feat,(which the existing Sudden feats do not allow) so if you have four Sudden feats already, you can take Sudden Quicken multiple times, among other things. At the higher levels of E6, the metamagic feats that casters choose to customize their spell list with will provide much of the differences between them, so I feel this feat definitely helps out in that regard.

That being said, Ryan, could we change this feat to "Swift Metamagic"? It's a bit more OGL that directly referencing the Sudden feats.

Practised Spellcaster already exists.
Modified Extra Spell
Modified Extra Slot

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of what you're doing is already done. Why go through all the hassle of redoing it?

None of those feats are OGL, so providing some E6-specific ones that can be listed in the main E6 document without copyright violation is important.