New Gaming Systems

[jdrakeh]

I'd say, if the game itself doesn't do anything revolutionary, the chance of success is next to zero.

Again, I'd say that 'revolutionary' has a lot less to do with the success of games than things like 'functional' and/or 'well-marketed' do. There are tons of new and different games out there which are, overall, pretty horrible in terms of being functional. Such games tend to enjoy a brief flurry of "Oooo! New! Shiny!" admiration... and then get dropped whenthe very next new, shiny, things comes along.

Fastlane always comes to mind when I broach this topic, and more recently, so does Capes - both of these games were 'innovative' (read 'different'), but for no good reason. They were different merely for the sake of being different - and they both sacrificed a large amount of utility and function to achieve this status. So what do they do, exactly?

Well, Fastlane is really little more than a generic game system that uses a roulette wheel to resolve actions, while Capes is a generic supers system that uses cut-out 'click and lock' cards to create characters. While both games do something different than the established 'norm', the end results that they produce are ultimatley the same results that hundreds of other games produce, only more difficult to achieve.

Innovation without function is worthless and short-lived. For some reason, though, a lot of indie-press designers just dont' get it. At times it seems that 'independent' is all about weird gimmicks and funky dice, as opposed to building practical, functional, games.

 

[Turjan]

Again, I'd say that 'revolutionary' has a lot less to do with the success of games than things like 'functional' and/or 'well-marketed' do. There are tons of new and different games out there which are, overall, pretty horrible in terms of being functional. Such games tend to enjoy a brief flurry of "Oooo! New! Shiny!" admiration... and then get dropped whenthe very next new, shiny, things comes along.

Oh, I probably was not clear with what I meant. With 'the game itself', I meant the whole package, and here mostly the subject matter, not the mechanics. Mechanics are mostly an afterthought for me. It takes a while of playing until I can decide what I like and what I don't like about certain mechanics.

I can only think about few instances where I specifically considered buying games because of mechanics. The first one were D&D variants, because they wanted to tackle a few dislikes I had with standard D&D (AU) or had an analytical approach to D&D that made some concepts better visible (GT). The second case was simple curiosity where I wanted to know what some popular game was all about (HERO Sidekick). The third case was curiosity how a diceless system worked and the price was right ($4.95, Everway). There will probably be a fourth case with Runequest next year, but that's just because I want to know how Glorantha (which I love as a setting) plays with some other system than HeroQuest.

Other than that, I buy games because the setting/premise interests me. I didn't buy Call of Cthulhu because I wanted to know BRP. I didn't buy Ars Magica because of its fabled magic system. I also didn't buy the Dying Earth RPG because of the 'innovative' system. It's the atmosphere that caught me. And this has to have some appeal to me and not mimic something that I already have.

 

[Scribe Ineti]

Examples would be the newer LOTR system and Serenity. Neither one runs on D20 but would anyone be interested in the particular system if they were being used by well known settings that people are interested in?

I use Decipher's CODA system for both LOTR and Star Trek, and have been very happy with the system, the poor press it's received notwithstanding. I'd look at a new system if it came out, but if it didn't do the things I like in CODA as well as or better, I wouldn't bother switching. I know CODA inside and out, and can run pretty much anything I want with it.

I can't ask for much more than that in a game system. If I can do all that in Coda, a new system would have to really sell me on why I should be making the switch. I imagine hardcore and devoted d20 players might feel the same way.

As for whether a new system would find success, I'd say it depends on a) how 'success' is defined in your business plan, and b) how well you advertise and promote it.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I'm certainly willing to read a new system. And contrary to the vast majority of folks who play RPGs I don't really care about background. If it is a smooth system with fun dice tricks - I'll bring the flavor.

As it stands the system will allow for a character sheet that is both sides of a 5x8 piece of paper.