New Legends & Lore (Rules, rules, rules)

[Gryph]

^ You think 1.5 hour combats are a "refinement"? Awesome for you.

Oh. Ow. Am I bleeding?

 

[P1NBACK]

Oh. Ow. Am I bleeding?

Do you want to continue this discussion via PM?

 

[ExploderWizard]

Well, not having played old school D&D recently, you know after 3 decades of refinement in RPG design and style, but having played D&D extensively in the late 70's and 80's when it was at it's height; I can absolutely verify that the experiences the NeonChameleon relate were the norm of play. In fact the were the typical player responses to DMs taking the stylistic advice of the game's creator in setting up their games or, you know, running the modules that were authored by Gygax.

Wow you can absolutely verify what the norms of play were for everyone?

I am truly humbled by your omnipotence.

 

[Gryph]

Wow you can absolutely verify what the norms of play were for everyone?

I am truly humbled by your omnipotence.

Ok, I admit to a certain level of annoyed hyperbole.

I attended a lot of gaming cons back in the day, though admittedly mostly midwestern region, and this style of play from paranoid players was rampant in those venues. Perhabs not THE norm, but still a strong and oft encountered play experience for a lot of players of AD&D.

A blanket "you were doing it wrong" was more than a little irritating. It's pretty easy to sit back 30 years later and be dismissive of someone's stated experiences. Doesn't mean you're not a P!nhead for doing so.

 

[P1NBACK]

A blanket "you were doing it wrong" was more than a little irritating. It's pretty easy to sit back 30 years later and be dismissive of someone's stated experiences. Doesn't mean you're not a P!nhead for doing so.

Now, you're blatantly calling people names.

There was no blanket "you were doing it wrong". We were talking about specific instances of play: Thief climbing, ten foot poles, etc.

You came into this thread with a goal: to troll.

You done?

 

[Gryph]

Now, you're blatantly calling people names.

There was no blanket "you were doing it wrong". We were talking about specific instances of play: Thief climbing, ten foot poles, etc.

You came into this thread with a goal: to troll.

You done?

I refer you to post 50 in this thread, authored by you.

 

[P1NBACK]

I refer you to post 50 in this thread, authored by you.

You mean the part where I specifically respond to Neonchameleon and his comments on drunken orcs, ten foot poles and "turtling".

Yeah... Exactly.

I never said, "This is how everyone played."

I said, "These are not my experiences and I don't see how you could have those experiences unless you were not following the rules."

There was already one post by Neonchameleon about Thieves climbing where he referenced the rules incorrectly.

You, you're just trolling. You're just being contradictory to be contradictory and incite flames. Whatever.

This conversation has gone wildly off course. I think we had some interesting discussion, but at this point, it's fruitless to continue.

 

[Gryph]

Neonchameleon, I honestly can't take you seriously. Your comments don't reflect my (recent) play of old school D&D whatsoever and sound more like someone who's never actually played the game.

Maybe you were doing it wrong? *shrug*

No, I mean this post where you tell him that, since his experiences don't match yours, that he must not have ever played the game or (charitable on your side) he was doing it wrong.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Ok, I admit to a certain level of annoyed hyperbole.

I attended a lot of gaming cons back in the day, though admittedly mostly midwestern region, and this style of play from paranoid players was rampant in those venues. Perhabs not THE norm, but still a strong and oft encountered play experience for a lot of players of AD&D.

A blanket "you were doing it wrong" was more than a little irritating. It's pretty easy to sit back 30 years later and be dismissive of someone's stated experiences. Doesn't mean you're not a P!nhead for doing so.

Our opinions are shaped, in part by personal experiences.

Its kind of like that scene from the movie Crocodile Dundee where Mick is in the hotel room and is asked if he has ever watched TV. He mentions that he saw some tv briefly years ago at a buddies place. He then turns on the tv and the intro to 'I Love Lucy' is playing. His response : " Yep. Thats what I saw".

Chances are, if you play a game many times and the play experiences are very similar then whatever you experienced will be regarded as "the norm" barring firsthand experience that contradicts that.

The thing is, there are so many approaches to playing D&D that there is effectively no "norm" and this was by design. Old school D&D doesn't have to be about jerk DMs and paranoid players any more than 4E has to be about endless dice rolling and tiresome combats.

 

[Gryph]

Our opinions are shaped, in part by personal experiences.

Its kind of like that scene from the movie Crocodile Dundee where Mick is in the hotel room and is asked if he has ever watched TV. He mentions that he saw some tv briefly years ago at a buddies place. He then turns on the tv and the intro to 'I Love Lucy' is playing. His response : " Yep. Thats what I saw".

Chances are, if you play a game many times and the play experiences are very similar then whatever you experienced will be regarded as "the norm" barring firsthand experience that contradicts that.

The thing is, there are so many approaches to playing D&D that there is effectively no "norm" and this was by design. Old school D&D doesn't have to be about jerk DMs and paranoid players any more than 4E has to be about endless dice rolling and tiresome combats.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. By the mid 80s I and my regular group were moving strongly away from that style of play. But the style was not the sole province of the "jerk" DM. The elements that NeonChameleon pointed out were in the rules and were included in the early published modules by TSR. There's no valid call to dismiss his claims of that experience.

Thankfully, that style of adventure has fallen out of favor.