New Magic Item Cost Rules

[Firzair]

Hi everybody,
I want to clear the rules for magic item creation cost, so that it encompasses everything and works for almost all spells that are not broken by themselves.
So here's my first try:

Premises:
- These rules just give the cost for creating the items, not for market value! Market value is determined by usefulness of the item.
- Every spell that creates an effect which is covered under another heading in the table is to be valued for the effect (e.g. Arcane Armor gives the effect of an armor bonus therefor the costs are calculated as for armor bonus +4)

Used abbreviations: sl = spell level, cl = caster level (cl cannot be lower than minimum caster level required to cast spell of given level)

So for example we go with the following costs to create (xp cost is 1xp per 12.5 gp creation cost):
The costs and categories given are just proposals and open for discussion!

[COLOR=silver]
EFFECT                                                                         CREATION COST
Spell, useable once, spell trigger (e.g. scroll)                               12.5 gp * sl * cl
Spell, useable once, use-activated (e.g. potion)                               25 gp * sl * cl
Spell, useable once, free action to use                                        50 gp * (sl + 4) * cl
Spell, 10 charges, spell trigger (e.g. wand)                                   75 gp * sl * cl
Spell, 10 charges, use-activated                                               125 gp * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per day, spell trigger (e.g. staff or rod)              200 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per day, use-activated                                  300 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per hour, spell trigger (e.g. staff or rod)             2000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per hour, use-activated                                 3000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per minute, spell trigger (e.g. staff or rod)           20000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per minute, use-activated                               30000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of days/level (e.g. Animal Messenger)          1000 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of hours/level or 1 day (e.g. Bull's Strength) 1500 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of 10 minutes/level (e.g. Alter Self)          2000 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of minutes/level (e.g. Arcane Eye)             3500 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of rounds/level (e.g. Blink)                   4500 gp * sl * cl
Armor bonus +X, enhancement + special abilities on Armor                       500 gp * (X squared)
Armor bonus +X, e.g. on Bracers of armor                                       400 gp * (X squared)
Armor class bonus +X, luck or insight                                          1500 gp * (X squared)
Natural armor bonus +X, enhancement                                            1000 gp * (X squared)
Deflection bonus +X, enhancement                                               1000 gp * (X squared)
Weapon bonus +X, enhancement + special abilities on Weapon                     1000 gp * (X squared)
Unarmed bonus, like weapon bonus, useable unarmed (e.g. monk)                  1250 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on one save (fortitude, reflex or will) +X, resistance                   150 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on one save (fortitude, reflex or will) +X, luck or insight              300 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on all saves +X, resistance                                              500 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on all saves +X, luck or insight                                         1000 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on specific saves (e.g. fort saves vs. poison) +X, resistance            100 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on specific saves (e.g. fort saves vs. poison) +X, luck or insight       200 gp * (X squared)
Skill bonus +X, enhancement                                                    15 gp * (X squared)
Skill bonus +X, luck or insight                                                30 gp * (X squared)
Attribute bonus +X, enhancement                                                500 gp * (X squared)
Spell resistance X, minimum 11                                                 5000 gp * (X - 10)
Use of feat (does not count as prerequisite for learning new feats             7500 gp plus 
             and only functions if prereqs other than feats are met)           5000 gp per prereq feat
Use of Class Ability (e.g. Evasion)                                            7500 gp * level when ability is gained
Bonus spell slot Xth level                                                     1000 gp * (X squared)
Metamagic feat, +X level increase (+0 = 0.5) , useable Y times per day,        300 gp * X * Y * Z
             maximum spell level Z (Z=3,6,9)                         
Regeneration X, non-energy damage does subdual damage  ##                      10000 gp * (X squared)
Regeneration X, only two energy types do normal damage ##                      15000 gp * (X squared)
Fasthealing X                                          ##                      15000 gp * (X squared)
[/COLOR]

## I'm not sure, if I should include these, 'cause the cost for making the Fasthealing spells permanent (duration of rounds/level) would already be quite high.

Any more categories needed? Too many categories?
Which costs would you change?

Market price for these items should be at least double the creation cost, I think.

Ok, that's it, awaiting your input and flames

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Firzair]

Further there should be rules for limiting the usability of the item, e.g. it could only be used ba a certain race.
These limits also should raise the creation cost (gp and therefore xp) of the item.

Here's my take on limits:

[COLOR=silver]
Limited to a certain race                                    1500 gp
Limited to a certain class                                   1500 gp
Limited to a certain alignment or religion                   2500 gp
Limited to only good/neutral/evil creatures                  2000 gp             
Limited to only chaotic/neutral/lawful creatures             2000 gp             
Not useable by a certain race                                500 gp
Not useable by a certain class                               500 gp
Not useable by a certain alignment                           1000 gp
Not useable by a certain alignment axis                      1500 gp
Damages users defined by "not useable by"                    +500 gp per 1W4 per round damage
Casts harmful spell X on user defined by "not useable by"    +cost to cast spell thrice per day (use-activated)
[/COLOR]

"Limited to" means only functions in the hands of X.
"Not useable by" means it doesn't function in the hands of X.
Harmful effects can only be placed in conjunction with "not useable by" effects.
The different effects stack, the harmful effects only count once on the highest effect.

Let me give a few examples:
I want to create a +2 longsword, limited to elfs, that damages orks (2d4) when held by them. The cost to create would be 1000 gp * (2 * 2) = 4000 gp for the +2 longsword. Now add 1500 gp for the elven limit, then 500 gp for the explicitly not useable by orks, finally (500 gp * 2) more for 2d4 damage per round. That would give a total of 7000 gp base cost, so you'd have to spend 7000 gp and 560 xp for that sword.

Or some specific armor, the "valdurian plate of the lion", a +2 full plate that gives a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, only useable by lawful good clerics and that casts Inflict light wounds on evil wearers. Base cost would be 500 gp * (2 * 2) = 4000 gp for the +2 armor enhancement bonus, plus (4 * 4) * 500 gp = 8000 gp for then strength enhancement bonus, doubled for non-armor-bonus type so 16000 gp, for a value of 20000 gp. Now you add the limitations: 1500 gp for clerics only, 2500 gp for lawful good, so we're at 24000 gp. The casting of the spell ILW on evil wearers costs 1500 gp (evil alignment axis) plus the cost to cast the spell use-activated 3 times per day for 300 gp * 3 (per day) * 1 (sl) * 1 (cl) (assumed cast on level 1) so 900 gp more. The total is 26400 gp and 2112 xp.

Perhaps the costs are too high...

What do you think?

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Firzair]

*** bump ***

 

[Kerrick]

Magic item creation is something near and dear to my heart, and I was seriously pissed that they did such a crapy job in the DMG and T&B. I had to port this over to Word so I could get a good look at it.. having a 640x480 sucks sometimes.
Anyway, here's my take on things.

Spell, 10 charges, spell trigger (e.g. wand) 75 gp * sl * cl
Spell, 10 charges, use-activated 125 gp * sl * cl

Making a wand like this would cost exactly 1/10 of a normal wand in gold and XP. What's to stop someone from making ten of these, for 100 charges at the same price? Yeah, it would take twice as long, but I at least consider it a good tradeoff.

Spell, useable X times per hour, spell trigger (e.g. staff or rod) 2000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per hour, use-activated 3000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per minute, spell trigger (e.g. staff or rod) 20000 gp * X * sl * cl
Spell, useable X times per minute, use-activated 30000 gp * X * sl * cl

I think these are extraneous. Powers can typically be used however often the character wishes (or, rarely, three times per day) and adding in new restrictions just confuses the issue.

Spell, permanent, from duration of days/level (e.g. Animal Messenger) 1000 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of hours/level or 1 day (e.g. Bull's Strength) 1500 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of 10 minutes/level (e.g. Alter Self) 2000 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of minutes/level (e.g. Arcane Eye) 3500 gp * sl * cl
Spell, permanent, from duration of rounds/level (e.g. Blink) 4500 gp * sl * cl

Unless I miss my guess, you got these from the ELH magic creation system, which, as several people have already pointed out, is badly done. Making non-permanent spells permanent should remain the purview of the permanancy spell and epic spells, not magic items.

Armor bonus +X, enhancement + special abilities on Armor 500 gp * (X squared)

This is confusing. Special abilities?

Bonus on one save (fortitude, reflex or will) +X, resistance 150 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on one save (fortitude, reflex or will) +X, luck or insight 300 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on alle saves +X, resistance 500 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on alle saves +X, luck or insight 1000 gp * (X squared)

I'd stick with the "Save bonus" listed in the original table, personally, although I'm not sure what "limited" (in the table in T&B" means, so it might be good to have distinctions between resistance saves and luck/insight.

Bonus on specific saves (e.g. fort saves vs. poison) +X, resistance 100 gp * (X squared)
Bonus on specific saves (e.g. fort saves vs. poison) +X, luck or insight 200 gp * (X squared)

Ditch these and make them part of the save bonus category. There aren't that many items that grant specific saves bonuses like this.

Skill bonus +X, enhancement 15 gp * (X squared)
Skill bonus +X, luck or insight 30 gp * (X squared)

Again, no real point for the distinction - it's a skill bonus, so it's not really a big deal. And really, having distinctions like this enables players to load up on buffing items, since they can have two or even three things that increase the same skill.

The restrictions look interesting. At first glance, I thought it made perfect sense that making an item restricted to only one class/race/whatever would cost more, since it calls for more exacting specifications in construction. Then I thought about the reasoning they gave in the DMG, about how limiting the usefulness of the item should reduce the cost (since not everyone is willing to buy something they can't use), but I'm still leaning toward your view. It's interesting that you included damaging items, though that might be adding a few too many criteria - the DM could just adjudicate a reasonable amount of damage based on the power of the weapon.
One last thing: why are you gold piece values a lot lower than the ones in the original tables? Seems to me that unless I were building an item that was restricted to one class and damaged someone else, it would be very cheap to create. How well has this system been tested?

 

[Firzair]

Hi Kerrick,
seems like you overlooked my first premise:

Premises:
- These rules just give the cost for creating the items, not for market value! Market value is determined by usefulness of the item.

The given prices are only the cost the creator has to pay! So the items with charges cost exactly the same as a wand in the DMG (costs given are per 10 charges, so a wand of CLW with 50 charges costs 75 gp * 5 (for 50 charges) = 375 gp to create, the same as in the DMG).

I think these are extraneous. Powers can typically be used however often the character wishes (or, rarely, three times per day) and adding in new restrictions just confuses the issue.

I think you are confusing some things. You can't use powers as often as you like! The rules in the DMG say that an item which allows use of a spell once per round costs the same as an item useable 5 times a day. That's nonsense! Just think about the Bracers of CLW that allows you to cast CLW once per round for a lousy 2000 gp Market value. IMHO the price would be ok if it would allow it 5 times per day.

Unless I miss my guess, you got these from the ELH magic creation system, which, as several people have already pointed out, is badly done. Making non-permanent spells permanent should remain the purview of the permanancy spell and epic spells, not magic items.

I don't own the ELH, but I'm not surprised that there are others with the same idea for calculating cost of magic items. But I think you also misunderstood (perhaps it's worded badly by me), the categries with "spell, permanent, from duration of ..." are for items with a continous effect. So if you want an item that gives a continous protection from evil (duration 1 minute/level) would cost 3500 gp to create (divided by 12.5 for the xp cost).

This is confusing. Special abilities?

You already know about the special abilties you can put on armor and weapons, don't you? Heavy fortification? Flaming? Shocking burst? Sound familiar?

Again, no real point for the distinction - it's a skill bonus, so it's not really a big deal. And really, having distinctions like this enables players to load up on buffing items, since they can have two or even three things that increase the same skill.

You have a point here, but there are some items that grant other bonus types and as I said, these should be rules for creation cost calculation, so I thought they should be included.

Is there anyone else who wants to help with this table, completing it? What about the given prices? Are you content with the price table given in the DMG or do you have your own tables (perhaps you would like to share)...

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Kerrick]

seems like you overlooked my first premise:

Yes, it would appear that I did. I forgot that creation cost was only half the base price. Oops.

The rules in the DMG say that an item which allows use of a spell once per round costs the same as an item useable 5 times a day.

I'm not sure where you're getting this. It says on the table that an item with "charges per day" has a base price adjustment of "divide by (5/charges per day)" and gives the helm of teleporation as an example (which can only be used 3/day). Therefore, it would cost LESS than a helm that allowed you to teleport as many times per day as you want.

But I think you also misunderstood (perhaps it's worded badly by me), the categries with "spell, permanent, from duration of ..." are for items with a continous effect. So if you want an item that gives a continous protection from evil (duration 1 minute/level) would cost 3500 gp to create (divided by 12.5 for the xp cost).

Ah, I see what you mean now. It's still basically making a non-permanent spell permanent. Of course, it used to be that you needed permanency to bind the spells into the item if they were to be continuous effects like the ring of protection from evil, but now you just need the feats. So, my point is rather moot.

You already know about the special abilties you can put on armor and weapons, don't you? Heavy fortification? Flaming? Shocking burst? Sound familiar?

Yeah, I know what those are What I meant was, I don't understand this line:

Armor bonus +X, enhancement + special abilities on Armor

You're implying there's a numeric value for "Special abilities on armor." I'm assuming that's the plus to market value noted on the armor tables (+1, 2, etc.)?

We were going to come up with our creation tables, but then we got sidetracked with half a dozen other projects, and they announced revised creation tables in 3.5, so we're waiting to see what they come up with.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm not sure where you're getting this. It says on the table that an item with "charges per day" has a base price adjustment of "divide by (5/charges per day)" and gives the helm of teleporation as an example (which can only be used 3/day). Therefore, it would cost LESS than a helm that allowed you to teleport as many times per day as you want.

Teleport, at minimum level, useable at will would cost (by the book only) roughly 90,000gp. To price an item useable by day, you divide the price by 5 and then multiply it by how many times you want it to be useable per day. Here's what it would look like broken down by uses per day.

1/day: 18,000 gp
2/day: 36,000 gp
3/day: 54,000 gp
4/day: 72,000 gp
5/day: 90,000 gp

According to the item pricing guidelines in the DMG and T&B, an item useable 5 times per day costs the exact same as an item useable an unlimited number of times per day, which is just funky. See how it works now?