New magic system...(long)

[Dog Faced God]

This system is way cool. I've long despised the 'memorize and forget' system, but I've never been able to come up with a workable system. This seems a very feasible system.

One problem though... I don't see any mechanic for support spells (fly, invisibility, etc.) or condition affecting spells (curse, hold person etc.).

 

[evildmguy]

SAGA and Alternity

ES: Very nice system. I am trying to write up a combo of SAGA and Alternity myself, so I liked what you did here. Cleared up some areas for me!

Few things to note. I understand this and I think you do, I am just clarifying.

This is for SLOW casting times. Spell casters are NOT emphasized as much. Makes sense because they end up being able to do a LOT more later.

This does tend to emphasize fighting more. Even Magic Missile takes 2 rounds to cast!

One thing I noticed was the "forcing" of magical features onto the elements. While I think what you have mostly works, what if you went back to what SAGA had? (Pyromancy, sprititualism, divination, hydromancy, etc.) You could divide them by arcane and divine as well. Then, an arcane caster could have perhaps INT modifier number of spheres. Or perhaps this would be function of level. This would allow a lot more miscellaneous spells that people are asking about.

Finally, I do think examples would be a good idea. Gives everyone you ideas of stuff as well as seeing what those spells take.

Can you show me (us) the following spells?

Polymorph Self
Stoneskin
Legend Lore
Eyebite (any version)
Any Bigby's hand spell
Teleport
Telekinesis
Protection from Arrows
Horrid Wilting
Any Prismatic spell
(Mass) Haste
Mage Hand
Resistance

I know this is thinking in the "old system" terms. So, if you don't intend any of these spells, say that as well. It just helps with the communication.

Thanks!

edg

 

[EarthsShadow]

I liked 5th Age Saga for Dragonlance and I liked the magic system, which is where I get some inspiration for this. Most of my inspiration for coming up with the game mechanic is from Sovereign Stone RPG, which uses the game mechanic but doesn't have the various charts for when a person would like to create their own spells.

The game mechanic for this is - once you know the Mana Threshold of the spell you wish to cast - roll a d20 + channel bonus and keep rolling till your cumulative total equals the MT of the spell. Then it goes off.

In sovereign stone it uses the five elements I have adapted from them: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Void. All types of game effects are categorized into these five elements. Illusion is in Air, Health is in Earth, Necromancy is in Void, Scrying is in Fire and Water (Fire for past, Water for present), things like that. Plus, each element has their elemental effects, so if someone wants a fireball, they have to be a fire mage. If someone wants to create or control water, then they have to be a water mage.

If we could combine this idea with Saga and 5th Age, that would be way cool and very possible. If you want to help me with this evildmguy, let's do it and create a very cool magic system that will rock. As it stands, its pretty good, but it could use work.

what other ideas do you have?

 

[EarthsShadow]

bump

bump

 

[vturlough]

None at the moment . . .

Greetings!

Sorry, it might be a while before I am active on the boards again. I have my campaign starting Tuesday and I am running an Epic level for the 24 hour gaming weekend that the local gameshop is hosting. Lots of things to prepare! Not enough time!

In general, I have tried to work with the idea of elements but, in my 20th century ways, it doesn't work. If we are allowed to say that advanced magic is similar to advanced technology, assumably mages would also not think in terms of elements.

For example, SS put healing in Earth. I personally think it fits better in water. Who is right? (Yes, the DM, but I am talking about an idea here. A concept.) Why is scrying in Fire and Water? What does fire have to do with the past?

My point is that these are extremely forced. They could fit but I don't think they are the best fit.

If you want to stick with elements, what about adding Spirit? Wood? Entropy? (instead of Void, which again, imo, makes more sense for an "element".) Animus? Mineral? Metal? Ash? Ooze? Salt?

Essentially, the elements were used when people thought that was all there was. By limiting ourselves to that, we force definitions onto them that not everyone will agree with, which is my problem. If you want Illusions, why not have that? Same for Divination, etc. Don't call them schools, call them philosophies, or whatever.

That's my two coppers.

turlough

 

[EarthsShadow]

The reason why I am using SS system of elements at this time is because is different than standard fire and forget D&D. It makes sense to me. But I also like SAGA and their system of elements, which is more diverse and also makes sense. That one is probably easier to implement also.

I would like some help in structuring a class around them, one class and would it be feat based for different elements or what?

 

[vturlough]

One long break later

My issue with elements is that they don't fit as well as I would prefer. What among the elements, natural forces, is evil? Again, entropy, natural decay, is really different from necromancy.

I think you need to decide if you want to differentiate casters. Right now, Psi, Arcane and Divine operate nearly the same. (Psi uses points and has attacks and defense. Otherwise, it is pretty close.) The classes have some differences but the mechanics are the same.

So, do you want to have the same thing or different? I think that depends on your world. If arcane and divine operated differently, it would be a completely different flavor. Witch hunts, inquisitions, etc. because how the worked would be different. (Yes, you can have it now but the game mechanics don't help the role playing, since the casters are currently treated the same.)

Okay, the idea of the magic systems being different is confusing. Let me elaborate. I don't mean a new set of game mechanics has to be created for each type of spell. That isn't worth it and not what you want. You can differentiate between the two. Right now, in 3E, all spells use VSM and F or DF for spells. The spells are done the same. What if arcane were VSMF and divine were V and DF? Then, there is a small similarity but a very big difference. Perhaps, taking this further, what if each spell required a drop of blood? The type of blood could then influence the effects of the spell. (From cow to dragon and all in between, including the caster using their own.) This is a big *game mechanic* difference that helps set up many things.

So, to answer your question, that depends. Are they going to be treated the same? Or will they be different?

d20 is all about "balance". (A bad thing, imo.) As you look at the magic system, you will have to figure out its balance and where to put things. With only four elements, casters should probably only know one. With ten, they could know three or four. It all depends on what you want to do.

Okay, this was more abstract than concrete but hopefully it gets you thinking. Again, if it was me, I would do specific specialties of magic. Perhaps, in doing these groupings, you will find certain attributes help. For example, summoning could be ruled by WIS, necromancy by CON and Charms by CHA. Perhaps that is how you will group things.

Just some ideas.

turlough

 

[EarthsShadow]

the only reason why I would be hesitant to have every aspect a different element is because it, to me, would complicate everything.

If I have five elements, then there are only five things to really worry about. If I have 20 elements, then that to me is to many.

there are many ways to do this, but I like the idea of channeling magic over the course of a round to a few rounds because to me, that is magic, and it makes sense. This system allows that completely.

soon, after my finals are over at college, i will post some spells and show how versatile this system will be.