New Magic System

[punkorange]

In this system wizards and sorcerors, maybe even clerics, get the class ability arcanist at first level. This allows them to use spellcraft to cast spells. Having five or more ranks in Knowledge(Arcane) grants a +2 synergy bonus on spellcraft checks to cast spells.
In order for a spell to be cast by a wizard, he must be reading it out of his spellbook, so the spell must be in his book, and his book must be in his hands at the time of casting. A sorcerer must have the spell in his known spell list, but does not need a spellbook to cast the spell.
Casting a spell deals it's level worth of non-lethal damage to the caster. A 0 level spell deals no damage, a first level spell deals 1 non-lethal, and a ninth level spell deals nine non-lethal. To cast the spell roll a spellcraft check, the DC's for spells are listed below.

DC 05 - cantrip
DC 08 - 1st
DC 12 - 2nd
DC 17 - 3rd
DC 22 - 4th
DC 26 - 5th
DC 30 - 6th
DC 35 - 7th
DC 40 - 8th
DC 45 - 9th

If a natural 1 is rolled on the spellcraft check the spell backlashes and deals its level x2 lethal damage to the caster. For example, Cassieass tries to cast Magic Missile, but failes with a roll of one. Rather than taking 1 non-lethal damage for casting, she takes 2 lethal damage due to the magical backlash.
If a natural 20 is rolled the caster has the choice of applying a metamagic feat to the spell.


This is still in the thought phase, and it hsan't been played, but I was just wanting to get you guy's take on it. Also what would be the best way to work a cleric into this system?

I like the way this system works. The non-lethal damage keeps a first level wizard from being a magic missile machine gun, but allows for the wizard to be more usefull in more than one encounter a day.

Also, the damage. lethal or otherwise, dealt by casting spells cannot be reduced. So damage reduction or some other similar ability will not help in removing the draining of energy while casting.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Does this mean that Mordenkainen fails to cast a Cantip 5% of the time? I would suggest spell failure for failing by X or more instead of a Natural 1, and Metamagic feats could be applied if you beat the DC for the modified level, rather than natural 20. That's just my immediate thoughts. Also, this makes sorcerers into even more worthless sacks of flesh than they already are.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Another issue: Bobby, the 2nd-level Wizard who can cast 3rd-level spells consistently except on a 1:

Human Wizard, Int 18, 5 ranks each in Spellcraft and Knowledge[Arcana], and the feats Magic Aptitude and Skill Focus [Spellcraft]. He has +16 to Spellcraft.

And then DC 45 is so high that even level 20 casters will have trouble with the check (this is because the average caster gets +2 to Spellcraft every time they should have gained access to a new spell level). Perhaps make this a Caster Level check vs DC 11+(2*spell level - 1). This gives casters a 50% chance to cast a spell that they would normally be able to cast, but it probably gives too much of a chance to cast high-level spells.

 

[punkorange]

yeah, I realized the DC's were a little off last night.

And bobby the 2nd-level wizard only has 8hp, he can only cast 2 third level spells without fear of falling unconcious. Hell, he could even try a 4th level spell with that kind of check, but if he rolls a 1 he takes 8 damage and is at 0 hp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

yeah, I realized the DC's were a little off last night.

And bobby the 2nd-level wizard only has 8hp, he can only cast 2 third level spells without fear of falling unconcious. Hell, he could even try a 4th level spell with that kind of check, but if he rolls a 1 he takes 8 damage and is at 0 hp.

If bobby the 2nd-level wizard only has 8 hp, then he is far below the curve to survive (d4 hit dice is unplayable without some sort of Con bonus). Also, two 3rd-level spells is two (nearly) guaranteed 3rd-level spells too many for a second level character to cast, in my opinion (Fly et al), and a cleric can get him up to even more.

 

[punkorange]

You also have to take into consideration in order to obtain the 3rd level spells to begin with he has to find them, and that is up to the DM. He still gains spells in his spellbook at a rate set by the phb.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You also have to take into consideration in order to obtain the 3rd level spells to begin with he has to find them, and that is up to the DM. He still gains spells in his spellbook at a rate set by the phb.

Well yes, this is true, but considering the low price of scrolls (and the fact that every wizard has the feat to scribe them), the PC can easily gain access to the spells she wants by requesting them from any friendly NPC wizard (its a day's work and several hundred quick gold pure profit for the NPC, and you can buy three of them as the PC for the price of the fighter's plate mail), so it would require some heavy fiat to keep common low-level spells away from the PC.

 

[punkorange]

The Dc's would have to be reworked, and I agree that it should be changed from say natural 1's and 20's modifying to missing or making the DC by say 5 or more.

I don't think the DC's should be so high that a wizard can't reliably cast spells without using feat slots on skill focus (spellcraft) and magic aptitude.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The Dc's would have to be reworked, and I agree that it should be changed from say natural 1's and 20's modifying to missing or making the DC by say 5 or more.

I don't think the DC's should be so high that a wizard can't reliably cast spells without using feat slots on skill focus (spellcraft) and magic aptitude.

Hmm...that makes sense, but the problem with the Spellcraft skill as the roll mechanic is that it varies widely initially and increases very slowly each level. You may want to try something where you roll 1d20 and add triple your caster level to meet a DC of 2 + 6*spell level?

 

[punkorange]

I will work this into my group with my cleric and playtest it and see what needs to be changed. Do any of you mind playtesting it as well?