new monster idea (my players stay out please)

evilbob

Adventurer
I need some assistance tweaking this creature, as well as setting its CR. I'm shooting for about a CR 12ish, give or take a couple. I believe I have a pretty solid idea, but I'd like some help with a couple of specific points. The creature's stats are as follows:

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Code:
War Blimp (working title)
Size/Type:		Gargantuan Aberration
Hit Dice:		12d8+132+12 (198 hp)
Initiative:		-1
Speed:			fly 30 ft. (poor, can hover)
Armor Class: 		16 (-1 Dex, -4 size, +21 natural), touch 5, flat-footed 16
BAB/Grapple: 		+9/+37
Attack: 		tentacle +21 (9+16-4) melee 2d6+16
Full Attack: 		6 x tentacle +21 melee 2d6+8
Space/Reach: 		20 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: 	swallow whole
Special Qualities: 	immune to fire and poison, DR 10 / adamantine, dependent sight, dependent invisibility, regeneration 5, heavy flyer, flying eyes
Saves: 			Fort +19, Ref +3, Will +11
Abilities: 		Str 42, Dex 8, Con 32, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: 		Hide -13 (+7 while moving invisibily), Spot +16 (through eyes)
Feats: 			hover, snatch, awesome blow, iron will, improved toughness
Environment: 		(fire-based outer plane)
Organization: 		Solitary
Challenge Rating: 	14?
Treasure: 		Standard (found inside creature's gullet)
Alignment: 		Usually neutral
War blimps are giant, shelled, blob-looking, mountainous creatures that slowly move across the land and use their tentacles to scoop up almost anything and bring it to their giant, gaping mouths on the underside of their bodies.

Flying Eyes: War blimps are constantly surrounded by 4 invisible, tiny, flying eyes (stats below). These literally are their eyes, and they use them to see and to maintain their invisibility. The eyes always go immediately after the war blimp in initiative order. 1/day, a war blimp can spit out four new eyes from its mouth as a full round action. Any existing eyes die when this happens. The first action always taken by 4 new eyes is to move, and then use a standard action (together) to generate greater invisibility on the war blimp.

Dependent Sight: A war blimp is completely blind without its flying eyes. This makes it immune to vision-based attacks. With at least one eye, a war blimp can see very well: it cannot be flanked, has darkvision to 60', and can see invisibility as the spell at will.

Dependent Invisibility: When 3 or 4 eyes are within 100' of the war blimp and functional, they can generate as a swift action each round greater invisibility, as the spell, on the war blimp. When 1 or 2 eyes are near, they can generate as a standard action each round invisibility as the spell. When no eyes are alive or near, the war blimp is completely visible.

Improved Grab (clarified; gotten from Snatch feat): To use this ability, a war blimp must hit a creature at least two sizes smaller than itself with its tendril attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can picks up the opponent and try to swallow it in the following round with another opposed grapple check. Conversely, it may drop a creature it has snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled or falling damage, whichever is greater.

Swallow Whole: A war blimp can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+8 points of bludgeoning damage and 1d6+8 points of acid damage per round from the war blimp's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 15). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A war blimp's gizzard can hold 2 large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, or 128 Tiny or smaller opponents.

Regeneration: War blimps take normal damage from cold.

Heavy Flyer: The maximum altitude a war blimp can achieve is 100' off the ground. War blimps are unable to take a charge action or move more than twice their speed in any given round.

Tentacles: A war blimp's tentacles may be sundered (+8 total bonus to sunder check). Each tentacle has 33 HP and the same DR as the blimp. A war blimp can regrow a sundered tentacle in 2d4 rounds, although cold damage applied to the stump (touch attack to affected area) will keep it from growing until the war blimp receives either natural or magical healing.

Flying Eye (tiny aberration)
HP: 13
Speed: 40 fly (perfect)
AC: 25 (2 size, 3 dex, 10 natural)
Special Qualities: immune to fire, see invisibility, darkvision 60', constant invisibility (can resume as a free action on their turn), assist war blimp (as listed under "flying eyes" above)
Skills: hide +7 (+27 while moving invisibly), spot +16

Tactics: War blimps usually move along or hover about 20' off the ground, using their tentacles to smash or grab anything it can eat (which is anything). Their invisible eyes try to stay near so that it can see below it and strong winds cannot disperse them too badly, but also try to stay high and out of sight if possible to avoid detection. A war blimp avoids touching down at all costs, as it has no land movement capability, and cannot move things into its mouth (located underneath the creature) when on the ground. It doesn't even like to fly lower than 10' high, and will often give up on creatures that dive into holes or are otherwise lower than its reach. Otherwise, a war blimp tends to have simple tactics: it will try to grab and swallow several creatures first, and use awesome blow to keep any additional threats away as it retreats when full. If it loses 3 or more eyes, it will generate new ones, but if it has already generated eyes and starts to lose more - or if it is heavily damaged, or if it loses 4 or more of its tentacles and is not regenerating new ones - it will begin to run. It tends to fly up as high as it can first, then away from the things hurting it. It knows that it is slow and not a good runner, so it tends to get out before things get too serious.

Edit: A successfull Knowledge(Dungeoneering) reveals:
DC 17 - aberration type, with aberration traits
DC 22 - it has an incredibly tough hide, and fire doesn't seem to bother it; it can also see deceptively well
DC 27 - cold seems to keep it from regenerating, and adamantine weapons pierce its hide
DC 32 - the invisibillity of the creature seems to be related to several tiny, invisible eyes flying around it
==========

I like the thing, but the main issue I'm worried about is the damage output. Currently, it can (and probably will, thanks to a high AR and being invisible) do an average of 90 damage a round, not to mention also swallow an entire group of 4 normal PCs in round 2. And that's without making at least one really intelligent feat choice: improved natural attack (instead of iron will). That jumps the average damage up another 21. And all of this is still after I reduced the full-round tentacle attacks to +1/2 str, instead of +str like it probably should be.

However, it also has massive weaknesses: a single character with a decent movement, see invisibility, and a ranged weapon can pretty much take the thing out by himself. Spells also hit it very hard, especially (cold) evocations. It's so big that even a fighter has a good chance to spot its location while invisible, and anything that supresses invisibility for more than 1 round negates its only real "trick." And the thing tends to run relatively easily, negating the need to completely kill it. (And it doesn't have nor could it benefit from combat reflexes.)

I put my guess of 14 CR on there just to get it started, but I'm still not sure if that's right. It's hard for me to evaluate it because my party are all about ECL 10, but there are 9 of them and they have no problem chewing through EL 12s with ease, and could probably take this creature as-is without issue (two have see invisibility 24 hrs/day, and three more do an average of ~100 damage/round against low AC opponents - even with DR 10 and the thing being 20' off the ground, two of the characters will still do an avg. of 80 damage/round if they can see it, since they can reach that far when enlarged). But a party of 4 average schmoes? No idea what they would need.

Suggestions on toning it down and/or changing the CR?

Edit again: Fixed some of the language; clarified some abilities.
 
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I really like this creature and my use it in one of our up coming games... that being said I would either drop the DR or change it to a flat DR 10 / --. If you keep it the CR should be closer to 14 IMHO. As a suggestion with that many PC's you may have better luck challenging them with multiple creatures instead of ganging up on one big baddie.

I would like to comment about one other thing though...

Blimps of ol' were filled with a highly flamable gas. It is resonable to believe a party's first reaction is to make it explode... hovering, slow moving mass... most likely filled with gas. I'm just curious why you made it fire immune instead of cold?

Hope this helps somewhat,
William Holder
 

The DR being adamantine is supposed to indicate that the thing gets its armor and resiliency from its shell, as opposed to being magical or supernatural. It just has a really, really tough hide. Adamantine weapons can pierce stuff like that. And, I think it's reasonable to assume that a 14th level party would have access to at least 1 adamantine weapon.

The fire vs. cold thing is two-fold: one, it suits the campaign better, :) and two, it's different from several other regeneration creatures and therefore harder to just "guess." But at the same time, cold damage is something any party should have access to without much trouble, so it's not too hard to get. It also reflects the fire-based nature of the creature, and it seemed reasonable to think cold damage would "seal" a sundered stump as well as fire on other creatures.

I was also thinking that a successfull Knowledge(Dungeoneering) check would reveal:
DC 14 - aberration type, with aberration traits
DC 19 - it has an incredibly tough hide, will heal over time, and fire doesn't seem to bother it
DC 24 - cold seems to work well against it, as do adamantine weapons; it also seems to see invisible things easily
DC 29 - the invisibillity of the creature seems to be related to the tiny, invisible eyes flying around it

These would be based off the ultimate CR of the creature, with DC = 10 + CR giving crucial information, and 5 more giving away the whole thing. Likewise, -5 would give something helpful, and -10 would point out something typically obvious or generally unhelpful.

sirwmholder said:
As a suggestion with that many PC's you may have better luck challenging them with multiple creatures instead of ganging up on one big baddie.
Yeah, I know. :) It's nice to throw one biggie at them occationally, though, to spice things up - especially one that they have the resources to deal with easily.
 

I was at lunch and came up with a rather radical idea for this baddie... why not make it a plant subtype. It would use the energy from Heat and Fire based attacks to either heal or grow stronger... The invisibility could be an unique by product of the way it photosynthesizes the energy. That way it only becomes visible with damage. Instead of the eyes casting Greater Invisibility on it treat them as having a symbiotic relationship that conveys sight to the War Blimp in exchange for protection from giant flying insects that like to prey on the flying eyes. If the Blimp is fighting and things go badly the eyes may loose moral and try to find another host. On a side note you could spawn the eyes off as either baby versions or distant cousins of the Beholder which may be a good way to set the stage for your next big bad.

Just a thought,
William Holder
 

After reviewing additional monsters, I don't feel quite as bad about the attacks. It's high for a CR 14, but not unreasonable. For example:
storm giant, CR 13: 3 attacks, similar AR, 3*4d6+21 (avg 105)
adult red dragon, CR 14: 6 attacks, similar AR, 2d8+15/2*2d6+7/2*1d8+7/2d6+7 (avg 89,) or 12d10 (avg 66) cone
marut, CR 15: 2 attacks, similar AR, 2d6+12+3d6 (avg 59)
12-headed hydra, CR 11: 12 attacks, lower AR, 12*2d8+6 (avg 180)
ice devil, CR 13: 5 attacks, lower AR, 3*2d6+9/2d6+3/2d6+3 (avg 68)

And many of these creatures have additional abilities as well. Granted, there are many other CR 14ish monsters with lower damage, but I think this serves as a reasonable estimate. The one main thing this creature doesn't have that other powerful CR 14s and above do is spell resistance. If it also had an SR of 23 (11+HD), this would bump it up another notch at least - maybe two.

Subbing improved natural attack for iron will makes it tougher, but I think it's still a high 14 or maybe a low CR 15.
 

sirwmholder said:
I was at lunch and came up with a rather radical idea for this baddie... why not make it a plant subtype...
That's a very good idea and one quite close to the spirit of what I was thinking. Although, if you replaced "aberration" with "plant," I wonder if it would up the CR significantly, since it gains more immunities. But perhaps not, since plants and aberrations are listed in the same grouping as far as "increasing monsters CR" is concerned (1 CR per 4 HD). Adding "healed by fire" would certainly be a bit much, I'm thinking, but the rest is pretty good. Hmm... I'll have to work that one up...

Edit: Maybe type is: Aberration [Augmented Plant]
It would lose darkvision and the good will save, but gain a good fort save as well as low-light vision, and immunity to all mind-effects, poison (has anyway), sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and critical hits. Maybe lower its Int by 1 or 2 as well.

Maybe worth a +1 CR?
 
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evilbob said:
...Adding "healed by fire" would certainly be a bit much, I'm thinking, but the rest is pretty good. Hmm... I'll have to work that one up...

Edit: Maybe type is: Aberration [Augmented Plant]
It would lose darkvision and the good will save, but gain a good fort save as well as low-light vision, and immunity to all mind-effects, poison (has anyway), sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and critical hits. Maybe lower its Int by 1 or 2 as well.

Maybe worth a +1 CR?
That looks good to me... I probably got carried away with the healed by fire bit... yeah let's drop that... lower the Int by 2 and it's still on the high side... CR 14 in this configuration would be though... but doable. Depends on if the party can identify it and know the weaknesses rather early on... but if nothing else they should be able to outrun it... which is a balancing factor.

Hope this helps,
William Holder
 

Here are the changes if it were a plant, with a little bit of tweaking to the wisdom score as well:

War Blimp (working title)
Code:
Size/Type:		Gargantuan Aberration [Augmented Plant]
Special Qualities: 	immune to fire, DR 10 / adamantine, dependent sight, dependent invisibility, regeneration 5, heavy flyer, flying eyes, plant traits
Saves: 			Fort +23, Ref +3, Will +6
Abilities: 		Str 42, Dex 8, Con 32, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 7

War blimps are giant, shelled, blob-looking, mountainous plant-like creatures that slowly move across the land and use their tentacles to scoop up almost anything and bring it to their giant, gaping mouths on the underside of their bodies.

Flying Eye (tiny aberration, augmented plant)
Special Qualities: immune to fire, see invisibility at will, invisibility at will (can resume as a free action on their turn), assist war blimp (as listed under "flying eyes" above), plant traits
 

I went ahead and used Upper_Krust's ECL and CR guide to calculate out the exact numbers by a codified system.

Code:
Ability Name		ECL (not CR yet)

Gargantuan size 	= +1.0
Abberation Traits 	= +0.2
12 Abberation HD	= +6.6
Poor Flight		= +0.4
30 ft flight as Gargant	= -0.4
21 Natural Armor	= +2.1
Full Attack 2d6x6	= +4.2
Improved Grab		= +0.2
Swallow Whole		= +0.625
Awesome Blow		= +0.2
Immune (fire/poison)	= +2
DR 10/adamantine	= +0.5
	(Hardness 10 would be +2 instead)
Regeneration 5/cold	= +0.75
Heavy Flyer		= -0.2
Ability Scores		= +4.4
---------------------------------------------

Without Eyes		= -0.8
	Blind		= (-1.0)
	Gaze Immunity	= (+0.2)
With at least one eye	= +0.56
	Darkvision 60'	= (+0.2)
	See Invisible	= (+0.2)
	Invisibility	= (+0.16)
With at least three eyes= +1.04
	Darkvision 60'	= (+0.2)
	See Invisible	= (+0.2)
	G. Invisibility	= (+0.64)

----------------------------------------------
Total (not factoring the eyes) = 22.575
CR (not factoring eyes) = 15 (Usual method to find CR)
Golden Rule (not factoring eyes) = 14.5 (Alternative method to find CR)

All Eyes Killed CR	= 14
1 Eye left CR		= low 15
3 Eyes left CR		= high 15, almost 16

This system also will give you the LAs you need. With no eyes, the LA is +10, with 1 eye, it's +11, and with 3 or more eyes, it's +13.

Hope this helps.
 

It's cool to see that an estimate of 14 wasn't too off base... I still need to pick up Upper_Krust's Immortal Books... I was mainly waiting to see if there was going to be a revision to his early book based on what he has worked out since... or if it the new meshes well with old.

Thanks for the chart Fieari,
William Holder
 

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