New Monster Swordwing!

[LordArchaon]

The flavor mix between predator and the creatures from Pitch Black, that others noted too, makes this monster's preview incredibly on time to excite me about 4e: these days I actually re-watched Predator and AvP2 and I watched Pitch Black for the first time!

 

[Rechan]

Mark of death is a lot like the Sign of Vengeance for the Vengeance angel. Not in its effect, but the same general idea involved.

Speaking of angels, these guys are far more badass than the angels are. Which is a shame.

These would be cool as mid paragon threats. But I just don't see them as epic foes.

Agreed. I actually want to reduce their numbers and make them level 20 or so for that reason. Makes me think of the winged bugs from Resident Evil 4.

But I dig it. I like the feel. I can also imagine these guys collecting secrets. And I can see a fighter hacking off an armblade so he can use it. I can also see weird, alien honeycombs with things stirring inside of them. Carrion crawler larvae? Victims yet eaten? Some sort of biological fuel for an eldrich device?

But you know what these guys remind me of? In the Epic Level Handbook (or was it in Dragon?) there was a 21st level roach. They lived under cities, in colonies, and just... ate people's souls. 21st level bug (that spit sticky stuff and gave you negative levels, but still).

(While I think I will be using Bugbears for the Predator vibe, I can dig that. Though I think the swordwing need more stealthy capacity before they can be proper Predators.)

 

[Dausuul]

I agree with those who say this doesn't feel like an epic monster. I've been trying to articulate what I think an epic monster should feel like.

I don't think epic monsters all need heaps of special abilities. Dumb brute monsters still have a place at epic levels, and you still need mook fights for contrast and a change of pace--not every battle can be a boss fight. But...

Epic threats should feel rare and special--not in the sense that you seldom fight them at epic levels, but in the sense that they occupy a position at or near the top of the game world's power spectrum. The presence of an epic monster, even a mook, should have a dramatic effect on its surroundings. A malebranche (or war devil if you prefer) may be a mook in Epic-level terms, but it's still a GIANT FREAKING DEVIL that could lay waste to a castle or a town all by itself. You don't get a gang of malebranche showing up to attack you unless you've personally pissed off one of the Dukes of Hell. If you see malebranche just kind of hanging out around some minor evil temple, it destroys any sense of perspective and ruins the feeling of "epicness."

An epic-level monster, if it's awake and active, should make its presence felt for miles around. And I just don't have that sense from swordwings. It's a fluff thing more than a crunch thing (cue cries of "You can just change the fluff!" from the peanut gallery, to which I reply, "You can just change the rules, too, but that doesn't mean bad rules aren't bad").

A swordwing nest by rights ought to be a thing of terror in the Underdark, a place where even drow and mind flayers fear to tread. Any nearby community, even a drow city, would fear the arrival of a swordwing "collector." Lesser races like troglodytes and kuo-toa might worship them as gods and offer up sacrifices in hope of appeasing them. Instead, the description makes it sound like swordwings are just another random Underdark oddity that PCs stumble across from time to time.

Now, to be fair, this may not be the entire Monster Manual entry. I hope the full page spread suggests a bit more in the way of how they affect the lands around them. But from the description given here, this is a Heroic-tier monster on steroids, not an Epic creature.

 

[DSRilk]

Okay, I know someone asked this before in the thread, but the answer didn't make any sense to me:

The creature is incensed by the blood of its enemies and attacks bloodied foes with greater accuracy

Where is the mechanic associated with this flavor text?

This creature leaves me nonplussed. Why preview this seemingly boring critter? Also, are these direct excerpts? If so, it concerns me greatly, because not only is there no mechanic that obviously backs up the flavor text (though potentially I'm just not seeing it), but the lack of duration on one of the powers and confusing naming (calling a power Mark of... when it doesn't mark) can add unnecessary complication. To me, these aren't flaws in the mechanics are much as they are flaws in the editing. I'm hoping this is simply a matter of poorly copied and pasted (or poorly retyped) material and not an example of what we can expect from $40 books.

 

[Rechan]

Epic threats should feel rare and special--not in the sense that you seldom fight them at epic levels, but in the sense that they occupy a position at or near the top of the game world's power spectrum. The presence of an epic monster, even a mook, should have a dramatic effect on its surroundings. A malebranche (or war devil if you prefer) may be a mook in Epic-level terms, but it's still a GIANT FREAKING DEVIL that could lay waste to a castle or a town all by itself. You don't get a gang of malebranche showing up to attack you unless you've personally pissed off one of the Dukes of Hell. If you see malebranche just kind of hanging out around some minor evil temple, it destroys any sense of perspective and ruins the feeling of "epicness."

The problem with this though is that you need 10 encounters to level up. So for 21st level to 30th, that's 90 fights.

How do you make each and every encounter feel like you are facing an EPIC monster?

I don't think you can capture that feel 90 times in a row.

Besides, I'd like to capture that feeling of EPICness before you ever reach Epic level. Your first dragon fight should feel Epic, like you're battling a beast of legend. Same with other levels, against certain monsters. The whole "These monsters are special and rare and you should feel awesome for facing them in the first place" feeling shouldn't start when you Ding the 20th time.

 

[Rechan]

Okay, I know someone asked this before in the thread, but the answer didn't make any sense to me:

Where is the mechanic associated with this flavor text?

Like the answer before it: It gets a bonus to attack bloodied foes.

That's no different than gnolls getting more damage to bloodied foes, or Tieflings for that matter. It's the "I smell blood in the water, I attack harder."

 

[DSRilk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSRilk
Okay, I know someone asked this before in the thread, but the answer didn't make any sense to me:

Where is the mechanic associated with this flavor text?

Like the answer before it: It gets a bonus to attack bloodied foes.

What is the numeric bonus? +2 to attack? +5? +1d6 damage? And where is this listed? Am I blind and just not seeing it (in which case, where is it), or am I simply daft due to old age and it's inherently known to everyone that when flavor text says "it gets a bonus to attack bloodied foes," it means +2 to attack or something?

 

[Dausuul]

The problem with this though is that you need 10 encounters to level up. So for 21st level to 30th, that's 90 fights.

How do you make each and every encounter feel like you are facing an EPIC monster?

I don't think you can capture that feel 90 times in a row.

You bunch them up. Let's say there's a swordwing nest you're sending the PCs into. That nest could involve four or five battles against the swordwings and their allies, plus two or three noncombat encounters; but you only have to create the "epic feeling" once, for the nest as a whole.

What is the numeric bonus? +2 to attack? +5? +1d6 damage? And where is this listed? Am I blind and just not seeing it (in which case, where is it), or am I simply daft due to old age and it's inherently known to everyone that when flavor text says "it gets a bonus to attack bloodied foes," it means +2 to attack or something?

In the description of the Armblade attack:

Reach 2; +30 vs. AC (+32 against a bloodied target); 2d6 + 9 damage (crit 2d6 + 21), and the target is marked until the end of the swordwing’s next turn; see also vicious opportunist.

(Emphasis added.)

 

[Simon Marks]

Where is the mechanic associated with this flavor text?

"Armblade (standard; at-will)
Reach 2; +30 vs. AC (+32 against a bloodied target);"

 

[Delgar]

I'm probably alone in this, but when I first saw the picture and read up on them the first thing I thought of was the creature from Jeepers Creepers.