New Monsters damage et al driving me insane.

[Infiniti2000]

What are all the smilies about?

 

[monboesen]

Okay I've just run through the above but I get a 5d4+5 for the Keep 'em Seperated attack, you said above to set it first to Medium and 15 damage- then when you add the 25% you recommended on it bumps it from 4d4+5 (average 15 damage) to 5d4+5 (average 17 damage).

I forgot that I also bumped it down to 11 damage for being an attack that has more than one target (expected damage lvl+4 more or less). The extra 25% for being an encounter power brings this to 14 damage and the 4d4+4.

For the At Will Normal 19 damage it's bringing up 2d12+6

Hmm. It seems that the Monster Builder program is bad at math. When I used the option to increase damage 25% it went from 15 to 18. But thats wrong (at least to standard rounding of numbers), it should go to 19 and the exact same 2d12+6 that you get.

For the Encounter Power- damage +50% = 15 x 1.5 = 22 damage then I end up with 2d12+9

Well you got to remember that this is another "two or more targets" power. So standard damage is 11. Multiply by 1.25 for being a Brute, thats 13.75. Then multiply with 1.5 for being an encounter power, thats 20.625 (which rounds to 21).

(For a single target power I would go 15*1.25(brute bonus)*1.5(encounter power bonus) = 28 average damage. Ouch!)

Those 21 average damage can be expressed as 1d12+15 or 2d12+8. In fact the program did it as 2d12+8 the second time I tried. No idea why.

And just you wait until your players see your grabbing those 2d12, that puts the fear of God ..... errr DM right back into them




I also don't think you should worry much about doing it wrong. It hardly matters if average damage is off by a few points, but it matters that it is errated to be higher. And I truly do find it to make a difference at medium to high heroic levels.

The first time the players encountered brutes with the adjusted the damage was a real WTF? moment for them.

And equal level encounters have gone from being walkovers to being fights that take out resources in the currency of Healing surges and Daily powers.

 

[monboesen]

Which is where I start to worry, what with the extra 5 damage for Pack Attack these guys are do a lot of damage (and I worry it's too much).

I've thrown a lot of Gnolls at my PC's (Thunderspire) and Pack Attack can be a bit much.

My reasoning would be;

1: I expect the Pack Attack bonus to factor in on ...say 50 % of the Gnolls attacks. That presumes that the players know about the bonus and do their best to avoid being ganged up upon.

2: Then it seems reasonable to reduce the Gnolls at-will damage about 2.5.

3: The result should be that the Gnoll might do more than expected damage (if the players are being foolish) or less (if the players are very tactical). I'm OK with that.

 

[Goonalan]

When I said anally retentive, I should have said paranoid delusional OCD style anal retentiveness- I've tried to work my way through as many as I can of the above solutions, which of course all differ slightly.

For info, as stated at the top, all these guys come from Scales of War adventure Den of the Destroyer, which I am trying to play RAW, except for tweaking the monsters as stated.

I particularly liked the reply from the Dev Team at Wizards (via Lord Hawkins)- there's nothing wrong with the damage expressions... but we add half-monster level and that works fine.

Guys, that kinda negates the first half of your statement.

I think I'm going to wing it, and arrange a session of D&D, I'll make sure all the HP/defences/To Hit etc. are right by the new rules (so not that much winging then), then I'll add X to the static damage (X*1.25 for a Brute & X*1.25-5 for an Encounter).

I think the reassuring thing from the above is the amount of answers that are right, and by that I mean not wrong- it's what works for you and your players. That said I will continue to fret about whether I am doing the right thing or not- that's my nature.

Thanks for all the advice, the insanity has subsided a little- I can see a way out.

Again thanks.

 

[Pickles JG]

Which is where I start to worry, what with the extra 5 damage for Pack Attack these guys are do a lot of damage (and I worry it's too much).

Help.

It's a bit high but they do not have any encounter powers or multi target powers & in practice I have found it's surprisingly hard to get the bonus to proc. I would probably make the base attack a point lower so it's average 15 over bloodied & unbloodied but that's really minor. It's really easy to make them play sub optimally to fudge the damage without actually fudging anything if you do find it's too much.

 

[tentfox]

How would you balance this character?

Joaquin Tantelroy
Medium aberrant humanoid

Level 12 Elite Skirmisher
XP 1400
Initiative +14 Senses Perception +14; low-light vision
HP 232; Bloodied 116
AC 26; Fortitude 23, Reflex 27, Will 26
Saving Throws +2
Speed 6
Action Points 1

Rapier (standard, at-will) Weapon
+17 vs AC; 1d8+6 damage, and Joaquin can shift 1 square. Miss: No damage, but Joaquin can still shift 1 square.

Dagger (minor 1/round, at-will) Weapon
+15 vs AC; 1d4+6 damage.

Cruel Taunt (minor 1/round, at-will) Fear
Close blast 5; one enemy; +15 vs Will; the target is pulled 1 square, and grants Joaquin combat advantage until the start of his next turn.

Combat Advantage
Joaquin’s melee attacks deal 3d6 extra damage to targets he has combat advantage against.

Acrobatic Retreat (move; encounter)
If Joaquin is marked, end this condition. Joaquin shifts 1 square and then moves up to his speed.

I think his chance to hit for his dagger should also be +17.

I see the combat advantage as a limited damage expression and should be roughly 25% to 50% extra damage for the round. At 10.5 average that seems about right, but on the high end. Should I then balance the rest of his damage to be 20 average across both his rapier and dagger attack?

Also do you think his defenses need to be dropped at all? He is an old school elite but his defenses do not seem to be overly high for his level.

 

[TarionzCousin]

What are all the smilies about?

ENWorld converts certain words -- usually 'profanity' -- into smilies.

Rel said he adds (1/2 Monster Level) +3 to all of his monsters' damage. So he really is more of a RBDM than the WotC guys.

 

[Pickles JG]

How would you balance this character?
I think his chance to hit for his dagger should also be +17.

I see the combat advantage as a limited damage expression and should be roughly 25% to 50% extra damage for the round. At 10.5 average that seems about right, but on the high end. Should I then balance the rest of his damage to be 20 average across both his rapier and dagger attack?

Also do you think his defenses need to be dropped at all? He is an old school elite but his defenses do not seem to be overly high for his level.

+17 on the dagger & make it ranged or melee just in case he needs that.

Double the damage dice & make the add +8. That's 17 on the rapier & 13 on the dagger +10.5 with CA.
It's a bit low for an elite as he will not get both attacks every round nor have CA for every attack.
His defences could be 23 26 25 - they are high but not outrageous.