New Multi-classing variant

[Coredump]

Howdy folks.
I am about to start playing in a new game, and the DM has some house rules regarding multi-classing, and I wanted to get some input on them.

Before I get to the details... Yes there is an easy way to abuse these. I am more curious about how balanced/interesting you feel this is when not specifically trying to break the game.


Example: You are playing a Halfling Rogue. You become 4th level (6,000 XP)
You decide to multiclass in fighter.

Advantage: You only pay 1,000XP to become a 1st level fighter; and another 2,000XP to become a 2nd level fighter. Now, this is a big advantage since you can pick up beginning levels cheap.

Disadvantage: The "additional abilities" do *not* add to your character level. The above rogue/fighter 4/2 is still considered only a 4th level character. You only have 4 hit dice, you can only have skills of 7, anything based on level/HD affects you as if you were 4th level. So, you could be 5-3-3; but would have significantly fewer HP and skill levels than everyone else in the party.
Plus: I am not sure, but I think he is still using the XP penalty if your classes are too far apart in level.

Obvious abuse: It makes it way more tempting/easier to just pick up one/two levels in a few classes. Or one level in *lots* of classes; especially once you are at mid levels.

But assuming you don't try and really point geek this, how balanced/interesting do you think this could be?

 

[DreamChaser]

This idea completely removes all ability to even approximate character power level, experience points, CRs, etc.

I would personally never run such a system and I'd be leery about playing in a game that used it. I would be terrified at coming across an orge with 3 levels of barbarian. It would still be a 3rd level creature by this idea since the 3 levels of barb aren't more than its starting 3...or worse, I think it has a higher level equivalent so I'd be in worse shape.

It seems to me like a rule designed to fix something that isn't broken.

DC

 

[Jeph]

It seems to me like a rule designed to fix something that isn't broken.

DC

Indeed.

 

[Norfleet]

This sounds like a bizarre, mutated version of 1E/2E dualclassing.

What would it MEAN to be a 5th level rogue, 2nd level fighter? You're a 5th level rogue with the BAB of a 3/2, and two fighter bonus feats, as well as more skillpoints?

This sounds like an open opportunity to cherrypick every single low-level character ability in the game free of charge, racking up buckets of feats, skillpoints, and whatnot, for free.

I declare broken.

 

[Mithreander]

Indeed, broken. Extra skill points, BAB, saves, etc, etc. for franction of the cost. No good!

 

[Coredump]

Indeed, broken. Extra skill points, BAB, saves, etc, etc. for franction of the cost. No good!

Before you declare "Broken"; remember the caveat. Since this is not being published as a game system, but rather used in a house rules setting, you can control the cherry picking munchkin aspect. I would **NEVER** want this rule in a published game supplement, it is rife with opportunities of abuse. *IF* that is what you are after. But consider more 'normal' situations.

Yes, you *could* have a 12/1/1/2/1/2/1/1 character and be way broken. But then you are obviously exploiting the weakness in the system, and can be controlled by the DM. But what about more typical 5/2 or 7/4/3 characters?

The 7/4/3 character has the same experience as a 9th level character. While you get more 'goodies' with the 4/3 than the two extra levels, how much more? Remember, the 9th level character would get a level higher of spells, would get a +1 ability bonus(8th level), another feat (9th level), would have skills at 12 instead of only 10, more hit points, and such.

I don't think the multi-classing needs a fix, and this certainly isn't it; but I am just trying to figure out how this will affect things.

I must admit, I hate the current method even where people pick up one level of barbarian/monk/ranger/whatever just for metagame reasons. And I would hate it even more in this system. But assuming you are not cherry picking, and not exploiting it, I wonder how it will play out.


Oh Dreamchaser, with this system, as with any (including core) it is up to the DM to ensure that encounters are reasonable.

.

 

[Creamsteak]

If the players are not going to attempt to abuse the system, I'd say it is interesting at least. I, personally, think you should not gain BAB, Saves, Feats, or Skill Points if you use this method. That is, If I wanted to lose 1000 experience to gain the 1st level rogues sneak attack and other first level abilities, that would be legitimate. If I wanted to sacrifice 3000 experience to gain two bonus feats from the fighter list, legitimate. Gaining all the benefits is a little too much, and your NOT LOSING ANYTHING, since you continue to gain hit points and everything else. At least if I played a Rogue 6 and then spent 10,000 experience to gain a 5th level casting ability and familiar, then I'm set far enough behind a character that didn't do that to at least be sacrificing something.

Fighter 10 (45,000 experience)
Needs 10,000 experience to reach 11th level. Instead he can gain the ability to cast 3rd level spells as a Wizard. At least, by removing BAB, Saves, Skill Points, and similar bits... you at least lose something compared to becoming the equivelent of a 15th level character... and now it's going to take much longer to gain your next hit dice...

 

[Golem2176]

Horrifying. The DM obviously has no grasp on third edition multiclassing.

 

[the Jester]

This is, imho, a horrible idea. Even if the pcs don't cherrypick, it throws off any chance of balancing encounters without a nightmarish amount of work. And how do you figure xps if you're the dm? Does a 7/5/5 fighter/barb/druid earn xp as a 7th level character? If he defeats a fighter 8/barb 6 how many xp is he worth? What CR is he? Is he the same, higher or lower CR than a fighter 8/barb 5/ranger 5? Than a fighter 9?

Worse yet, what the hell do you do with a fighter/wizard 5/5? Is that a 5th level character? How do you figure xp for them, or award xp for defeating them? What about a stone giant fighter 10- do those fighter levels count for anything? Does a monster need to gain levels in excess of its HD to advance? So, for instance, a mind flayer isn't 9 HD and CR 9 until it's a 9th-level psion mind flayer?

It sounds like, under his system, it's impossible to achieve a balanced multiclass character- let's compare Bob the fighter 5/wizard 5 with his 6th-level fighter buddy Tim (equal xp):

BAB- Bob, +7; Tim, +6.
Base Fort- Bob, +5; Tim, +5.
Base Ref- Bob, +2; Tim, +2.
Base Will- Bob, +4; Tim, +1.
Spells- Bob, fireball and dispel magic; Tim, none.
Feats- Bob, 7 (1 at 1st level, 1 at 3rd level, 3 bonus fighter, 2 bonus wizard); Tim, 7 (1 at 1st, 3rd and 6th, 4 bonus fighter).
Skill Points- Bob, 10x (int bonus + 2); Tim, 8x (int bonus +2).

Where does Tim get ahead? Only in that he's 6 HD. Even in feats, which is where a fighter's supposed to get his oomph, he comes out even, not ahead.

Bad, bad, bad idea.

Please direct your prospective dm to this thread to give him or her a few examples of the kind of problems she or he is likely to hit...

 

[AeroDm]

This is indeed a horrible idea. However, if the DM really wants to do it and the players think it would be fun, go for it. No one else will understand, your game stories will be confusing to others, you'll constantly be defending the merrits of the system to others, but if its fun have at it.