New OGL - what would be acceptable? (+)

[mamba]

Okay? The greed monster is defeated. Then what?

1DND fails. Visibility of D&D plummets as their is no big player in the fantasy TTRPG market. And the fantasy TTPRG market and community collapses because their is no one pushing D&D to the mainstream to bring new people in and everyone losses money. Mass layoffs and everything shrinks?

mission accomplished, yes. This won’t happen overnight anyway, people will migrate during the process and if we lose some along the way, fine. TTRPGs will recover, WotC will not

 

[Bohandas]

It does matter.

They don't have the money to market D&D to fund the mainstream visibility to keep newcomers in and the 3PPs in business.

None of the 3PPs are big enough to keep the train going without taking in investors that would make them act just like WOTC and TSR.

D&D is barely leaving the niche hobby status. Loss of Big Money D&D would push it back to super niche.

1. It survived for almost half a century as a niche product

2. Nobody is advertising chess or checkers or tic-tac-toe and we've all heard of them. Not being beholden to a corporation helps with this

3. Having mass market appeal is not the same as being a quality product

 

[mamba]

The thing is 1.0 was a huge gimme to the D&D consumers. If we ask for OGL 1.0 back, we have to give WOTC/Hasbro something in return for all the lost potential profit we are cutting from them and the allowance of other companies to use 1.0 to compete with them.

no, we absolutely do not. They offered a free, perpetual, unrevocable license, and now they want to strong-arm and lie their way out of that

Unless someone else is willing to pumping millions into matketing for a D&D clone, a failling 1dND makes the entire D&D ecosystem shrinks. And we lose a lot of what we have gained in 5e. People go back to video games, football, or TV as their main hobbies and the remainers lose.

we are the ones pumping the money in via sales. If we all move on to whoever wants us, nothing changed except for that not being WotC

 

[Bohandas]

Okay? The greed monster is defeated. Then what?

1DND fails. Visibility of D&D plummets as their is no big player in the fantasy TTRPG market. And the fantasy TTPRG market and community collapses because their is no one pushing D&D to the mainstream to bring new people in and everyone losses money. Mass layoffs and everything shrinks?

Yes. The point of the idea is to retaliate against Hasbro's abuses, and that means harming their business

 

[Minigiant]

1. It survived for almost half a century as a niche product

2. Nobody is advertising chess or checkers or tic-tac-toe and we've all heard of them. Not being beholden to a corporation helps with this

3. Having mass market appeal is not the same as being a quality product

Survived yes.

But all these 3pps, youtube creators, tikitok creators, D&D sites, and others would disappear.

The $$$ faucet would be turned down and the revenue stream would go away. People would have to get nonD&D jobs. Big publishers would have to downsize. You wouldn't get much new.

You're not going to get the 2020s D&D market without a huge mainstream injection. We will all lose.

 

[kenada]

Aren't rulests uncopyrightable to begin with?

As I understand it, that’s how things were interpreted for a while, but U.S. courts have found in a few cases recently there’s a line that can be crossed where mechanics go from idea to expression (and can be protected by copyright). Unfortunately, that line has not been established yet for tabletop RPGs, so who knows, but if it’s true that Hasbro is out for blood, we may find out.

 

[Bohandas]

Survived yes.

But all these 3pps, youtube creators, tikitok creators, D&D sites, and others would disappear.

You must be young

Youtube was around for years before everyone on it started selling out like they do today. We don't need the professional Youtubers either.

There was a period around the turn of the century where we had basically everything we do today in terms of content, but it was all free, done by people who were in it for the sake of art and community. I'd actually be pretty happy to be rid of the people who ruined those communities by turning them into a business.

 

[mamba]

What we have to do is convince them that going to ALL would shrunk the market and counter with a LOT of a growing market. Say "100% of 10 is less that 50% of 100".

that is the boycott part, the offer is not to do it

 

[Reynard]

If we ask for OGL 1.0 back, we have to give WOTC/Hasbro something in return for all the lost potential profit we are cutting from them and the allowance of other companies to use 1.0 to compete with them.

There are no lost profits. WotC wasn't going to make those adventures, settings and splatbooks anyway.

 

[Clint_L]

There are no lost profits. WotC wasn't going to make those adventures, settings and splatbooks anyway.

I think they mean going forward, not recompensing them for any potential lost profits in the past.

That's what this is really about: going forward, Hasbro wants a royalty from folks making more than a certain amount of money off D&D.