New player asking for some advice/help, please. 3e vs 4e. Which one is for me?

[Belphanior]

Umm, if you are DM who has run his campaign up to that level you know. If you don't, you aren't ready to competently run a high level game and your experienced players will trounce you.

Well then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I think that's utter nonsense. Note that I said that you'd have to look up a lot unless "you know by heart what exactly" they do. Do you know exactly what each spell in the PHB does? Including the exact range, area, duration, special limits, and so on?

It's possible you do, and there was a time in 3.0 where I could know the correct answer to any such question with 90% accuracy. But I hardly consider knowing by heart whether Blasphemy is a 30' spread or a 40' spread a bare minimum to competently run a game.

 

[Loonook]

Honestly, both of the editions have pros and cons... 3e has an enormous amount of 3rd party support, the books are going to be cheap to pick up (I've seen offers at local shops to pick up entire WotC sets for less than 300 bucks... a few bucks a book and have all the materials you desire?) and it has a pretty wide series of support... but the best thing is that there is so much material that you would never need to pick up a new system. Players who play the game are dedicated to it (otherwise they'd hop to 4e) and most of the materials I still see popping up are pretty solid.

Also, an understanding of 3e will open yourself to plenty of other d20 games with little muss or fuss, and the d20 OGL and its materials have spawned half a dozen amazing games outside of D&D that you can play when you get tired of swords and sorcery. Heck, I picked up all of my WotC d20 Modern materials for under 20 bucks, which included an extra core rules copy.

4e has simplification in some ways... but is more complex in others. There are some great concepts involved, but when every character has several different powers to worry about... well, it's going to get more interesting as powers keep appearing. There's some creative work going on, though saying that either 4e is too videogamey or 3e is too complex is the sort of value statement you need to find out on your own.

Personally I prefer 3e out of D&D, but I play a heck of a lot more Modern and I'm starting a Little Fears game. 4e... played in a little pickup game and, while interesting, wasn't my cup.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[darjr]

Let me suggest a different tack.

Along the lines of those recommending not spending any money yet and testing systems. If you can, I'd spend at least some of the game time taking a tour of sorts using the free test start systems available.

I don't have a comprehensive list of links, but I think there is one.

I'd start with the ones that have boiled down quick start rules.

Chaosium has a great new one for BRP with adventures.
Pinnacles Savage Worlds test drives are also really good.
I'm partial to GURPS and it has a free subset of rules and adventures.
I'm also partial to D&D 4e and it's quick start. I think it has already been mentioned.

There are probably a lot more. I think white wolf has a few for many of their games. They have them at some game stores, I got the hunter quick start free at a FLGS. (by the way, any white wolf guys, great idea, and thanks!)

After that more fully fleshed out free online systems like the Pathfinder beta, the SRD, Ars Magica 4th (right?) and FUDGE/FATE are all free. Including what was already mentioned, OSRIC and the other old school alikes.

I'd also suggest going to a Free RPG day event, Free RPG Day. A list of stuff that will be available is at Free RPG Day Retailers I see a C&C quick start on the list, which is new to me, as well as a couple others including the 'introduction to Dragon Warriors'.

Finally see if you have any 'living' or organized rpg's in your area. D&D 4e RPGA is proably the biggest, but there is the Paizo organized play that is current 3.5, and the Blackmoore one, which until they ramp up their D&D 4e is still 3.5. There are others, I think Rokugon is one that gets some traction around my area. I'm crossing my fingers for MGTrav and GURPS organized play, but those are still rumor mill fodder, for now.

 

[Piratecat]

I've just deleted 22 posts. What the heck are you guys doing, hijacking a new players' thread onto as silly a topic as spiked chain tripping? Time to stop.

This isn't the place to proselytize. The guy is trying to get a balanced picture of the two systems. If you can't do that, don't post.

 

[BryonD]

I greatly prefer 3E and have no active desire to play 4E. It would be ok, but not nearly as good as 3E, so why bother.

With that in mind, if you are a new to RPGs, then you should start with 4E.

I had a lot of fun with 1E once upon a time. At this point, I have no real desire to play 1E either. A nostalgia session or so, sure, but I don't want to dedicate time to a campaign or anything. I'd rather do what I enjoy most. Back when I was playing 1E, it was all I knew and it was what I enjoyed most. I moved on to other games as better mousetraps came along. IMO not every new mousetrap is a better mousetrap. But 1E is and was a very good mousetrap.

If I had never discovered better, it would still be good enough.

You may be a 4E gamer. In that case, you should go ahead and play 4E. Obvious enough.

You may be a 3E gamer. In that case, you should go ahead and play 4E. Yes, 4E. If you are a 3E gamer at heart, but just don't know it yet, then you will LOVE 4E. It is easy. You will dive right in and be in the action in no time. As you grow more and more into RPG gaming, you'll pick up information about what 3E offers and you will switch (remember, the hypothetical that you are a 3E gamer at heart). You will have even more fun with 3E, and you will have had the learning curve benefit of 4E. You may even find some other non-D&D game that does it for you better, but that is just a variation of the same point.

You may find that you are not a "gamer" in a serious sense. In that case, play 4E, just because it is the new version, enjoy it while it works for you and then move on.

No matter what, if you don't have game experience, play 4E first.

Now, if you know an established group of gamers, friends of yours, who have something going. Play that, whatever it is. But it doesn't sound like that is the case.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Whatever you choose, you'll sure gonna have a lot fun, and the occassional frustrating moment. As long as you and your players are on one page and figure out what you enjoy most, you'll have a good time. If you don't have a good time, talk with each other.

After this general, neutral welcome, I'll be entirely partial:
I'd definitely suggest 4E.
1) It's so far my favorite system to run as a DM. It has a lots of mechanical tools or guidelines that make preparing the game easier and representing any type of conflict the PCs might need to resolve.
At the game table, I don't have to look up most rules, and most importantly, monster abilities are standing right there in the stat-block, not to be cross-referenced with the spell list in the core rulebook or a supplement.
2) It's so far my favorite system to play. Whatever I pick to play, I know it will be decent in his "core" function, and that I will have options to branch out or to "optimize", whatever I envision for the character. I love the type of tactical teamwork the system supports and demands.

 

[ProfessorPain]

I see lots of good advice on both sides here, but again don't lock yourself into one system is you can avoid it. When I first started we played AD&D sometimes, Call of Cthulu other nights, Palladium, TORG or GURPS on other occassions. This really made my gaming experience more enjoyable. Like when you go to the movies or video store. You watch what you are in the mood to see. Treat games the same way, just keep in mind one viewing is at least a few playing sessions.

 

[blargney the second]

If I get Monopoly I'll just try to RP it properly. You know design some hobos that can attack you at the trainyard and give everyone a saving throw to have their luggage stolen in the hotel. Give the players the option to sleep on the street as long as they're willing to face hordes of homeless undead.

... that actually sounds like a lot of fun!

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I would expect that a DM at that level to know roughly what most of those spells do. But there is a difference between knowing roughly what the spells do and specifically what the spells do.

It's not what you know that matters, it's knowing what you really need to know, versus what you don't need to know until you need it.

 

[Betote]

I find it odd when people who've been playing for years tell someone "if you are new to the game, you should start using X", where X is a game different to the one they started with. It's like saying "I don't think you're smart enough to enjoy the old games".

That said, I am with the posters who are saying that the best way is to test the countless free games / editions out there and then choose which one you want to spend money in.

For D&D, we have Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, the 3.5 SRD, the Pathfinder Beta and now the 4e test drive rules, so anyone can try any edition and decide which one is their favorite (there's no 2e retroclone, but... well, we're talking about finding your favorite edition )

For other games, and speaking of D&D-like gaming, I'd recommend the RuneQuest SRD by Mongoose, the Savage Worlds Test Drive rules or the Conan RPG retroclone (I can't remember its name right now).