D&D 5E New Players same level as Current Players?

[Nytmare]

You are correct a new player might be afraid that they are being discriminated against. They might also be afraid that they are accidentally joining a Satanic cult. They might think that the other players are covert government agents trying to gain their confidence so that they can secretly spy on them.

It might be a bit nonsensical however, to discuss those things in this thread, or to assume that the people here might be doing any of them.

 

[Lanefan]

The situation was one where the existing players were Level X, and the new player just joining the game would be Level X - Y.

You've misread (or not read) something else I said earlier in this thread: in my games a PLAYER new to the campaign brings in his-her first character at the party average.

Subsequent characters from that player or any other come in at a lower level than the average, either at an arbitrary "floor" level which slowly rises as the campaign goes on or one level below the current lowest, whichever is better.

Lan-"and how (and why) did the question of race and-or gender of the player wander into this discussion"-efan

 

[Seramus]

You are correct a new player might be afraid that they are being discriminated against. They might also be afraid that they are accidentally joining a Satanic cult. They might think that the other players are covert government agents trying to gain their confidence so that they can secretly spy on them.

It might be a bit nonsensical however, to discuss those things in this thread, or to assume that the people here might be doing any of them.

Discrimination = Very Common.
Satanic Cults = Ultra Rare.
Player Spies = Ultra Rare.

I'm... starting to get the impression that you are just messing with me now. Same for MostlyDM. On that grounds, I don't think our conversation can go any further.

You've misread (or not read) something else I said earlier in this thread: in my games a PLAYER new to the campaign brings in his-her first character at the party average.

Subsequent characters from that player or any other come in at a lower level than the average, either at an arbitrary "floor" level which slowly rises as the campaign goes on or one level below the current lowest, whichever is better.

No, I definitely missed that part. Thank you for clearing that up. That is much better.

 

[MostlyDm]

Discrimination = Very Common.
Satanic Cults = Ultra Rare.
Player Spies = Ultra Rare.

I'm... starting to get the impression that you are just messing with me now. Same for MostlyDM. On that grounds, I don't think our conversation can go any further.

I have no issue with ending the conversation, if you like.

However, for the record: disagreeing with you is not the same as messing with you.

 

[Seramus]

However, for the record: disagreeing with you is not the same as messing with you.

I have no problem with disagreement. It was him taking what I said and then comparing it to two absolutely absurd things that counts as 'messing with me'. I mean, Satanic Cults and Spy Players? That's nuts. I've never encountered either of those in my entire life. I encounter discrimination almost every day.

 

[Nytmare]

I have no problem with disagreement. It was him taking what I said and then comparing it to two absolutely absurd things that counts as 'messing with me'. I mean, Satanic Cults and Spy Players? That's nuts. I've never encountered either of those in my entire life. I encounter discrimination almost every day.

The point is that you are saying that a DM shouldn't have a new player start a character off at a lower level because there is a chance that a new player might accidentally think that they are being sexist or racist. I am saying that that is as silly as being worried about them calling you a cult leader or spy.

You keep on attaching non-sensical accusations to things, I figured I'd just help you out.

 

[Seramus]

The point is that you are saying that a DM shouldn't have a new player start a character off at a lower level because there is a chance that a new player might accidentally think that they are being sexist or racist. I am saying that that is as silly as being worried about them calling you a cult leader or spy.

You keep on attaching non-sensical accusations to things, I figured I'd just help you out.

I've said a lot of things, and they should all be taken as part of a greater whole. Like small weights being added to a balance scale. Not reduced down to a single point, as if that point were the only one being made.

There are a large number of bad reasons to start new players off at a different level than the rest of the players. Lanefar has pointed out some good reasons why that does not work for his group, and I also admitted that I misunderstood one of his points (he does not start new players out at a lower level). Please stop with the silliness.

 

[Sunseeker]

I encounter discrimination almost every day.

Cool story bro. But here's a hint: If your reaction, which you are projecting upon potential new players, to a rule, ruling, loot distribution or anything that is not perfectly even between the party members is that you are being discriminated against and the DM is a bigot, well that's on YOU.

DMs shouldn't need to take special precautions and ensure everyone gets perfectly equal because you have a perception problem.

Sometimes there's inequality at a table. Because random loot tables say that no weapons for the wizard dropped. Because Bob wanted to try out his new build and the DM wants to discourage players from randomly swapping characters. Because sometimes that's just the way the cookie crumbled. If any player's reaction to that is "I'm being discriminated against!" that is an incredibly selfish player and the sooner that comes to a head, the sooner I can remove a problem from my table.

 

[Seramus]

Cool story bro.

Thanks, wanna hear it again?

But here's a hint: If your reaction, which you are projecting upon potential new players, to a rule, ruling, loot distribution or anything that is not perfectly even between the party members is that you are being discriminated against and the DM is a bigot, well that's on YOU.

DMs shouldn't need to take special precautions and ensure everyone gets perfectly equal because you have a perception problem.

I don't think you need to go to those lengths, but why deal with it? Why invite it? Why create a situation where it might come up? Players who specifically want that kind of thing, and competitions are very good reasons as other posters have mentioned, but besides those situations? Why even bother with the potential of all that nonsense when an incredibly easy solution is right there. It even makes book-keeping and combat encounters a little easier to organize.

Many other things are not so easily solved. This one is.

 

[Lanefan]

I don't think you need to go to those lengths, but why deal with it? Why invite it? Why create a situation where it might come up? Players who specifically want that kind of thing, and competitions are very good reasons as other posters have mentioned, but besides those situations? Why even bother with the potential of all that nonsense when an incredibly easy solution is right there. It even makes book-keeping and combat encounters a little easier to organize.

Many other things are not so easily solved. This one is.

Except in solving one (perceived-by-you) problem by making everyone as equal as you can you're kind of generating another.

In real life not everyone is equal for a whole bunch of reasons. Personally, I'm reasonably good at writing song lyrics but put me next to a horse and I've no idea what to do with it. And some people, without any training in anything, are just flat-out better at a lot of things than others are. I have no problem with this unequal reality being reflected in the game at least to some extent; and this is what dice are for...and this is why for example I don't like point-buy or stat arrays for character generation.

Later in the campaign, I bring Joe the Fighter into the party. He's competent (6th level) but not as good as Rhonda the tank (9th level), a party stalwart who's been adventuring quite a bit longer. Now maybe someday I'll catch up to Rhonda, or maybe I'll just have to accept as a fact of life that she's simply better than me. Them's the breaks.

Side story: in the game session I just got home from I'm running two characters, both Fighters, one of which is by two clear levels the lowest in the (large) party...and in a nasty session-long combat in which two much more powerful characters died the lower-level guy came through with flying colours. It can be done, if you're willing to do it.

Lan-"my other character in that battle - the original Lanefan - spent half the combat stunned"-efan