New Players, Sunless Citadel, HELP!!!

[Lichemaster]

I ran the SC with 6 characters they did great but due to a bad experience with ppl getting there hands on the modules I run, I always change just about everything in the modules.
Erky joined the group and keeped getting in the way (he is evil in my adventure) the group eventually kicked him out of the group, he swore revenge.
He then found the Kobold queen tied up after she surrender too they group (the paladin would not kill, and they thought they might just get a reward).
Meepo stabbed them in the back when they talked down to him (after a few times) and wanted to show his loyalty to the queen in hopes she would send troops to get the dragon.
why can't villains use there heal skill too?
Now Erky,Meepo and the Queen will make a return later in my Champaign.
They then went through "forge of fury" and the cleric had visions of the Elemental eye through out both modules (the temple of elemental evil, I am using the original instead of return).
They never finished "forge of fury" they had one level left and split as the cleric got hit 3 times by the shadow (I believe) and lost like 6 or more points Wisdom
and started to panic and wanted to leave to regain it.
They went to a village near buy (not Homlet,but a similar village from raise the dead by necromancer games) and had to preform some duties to get it done.
2 party member went to Nulb to sell some captured armour and weapons and Wow they had the Elemental eye symbol on them and since the town is evil they captured them and the other 2 guys (now the party is only 4 strong) had to save them.
So now they entered the temple and they are in big trouble, just read Fundin strongarms post on this forum.

so,
-have the cleric have visions now about the temple
-Have Erky be evil (they will not cast detect evil yet, he will make his return in the temple).
-and good luck!

 

[maddman75]

Heh, my group attacked the kobolds, deciding they weren't helping any scum humanoids rescue a dragon. And since he was in charge of the dragon, they attacked Meepo first.

My group as well was short a cleric. They picked up Erky, and kept him for quite awhile. I too went from SC to RttToEE, and Erky was with the party all the way through the moathouse.

RttToEE is NOT what I'd call an easy module to run. It is good, but quite large as well. The different areas are meant to be dynamic, and there's just a lot to keep track of. It's also called "Monte's Meatgrinder" for a reason. I went through 21 player characters on it, including a total party kill. (we did have 7 PCs though by the end).

You can get a ton of help on http://www.montecook.com with an entire forum dedicated to RttToEE. There's unofficial errata, hints, suggestions, and story hours. Good luck!

 

[TheNameless14590]

Thxs, I really liek the idea of the journal mentioning the bad guys in RttToEE, I'll have to steal it. Yes there is an Underdark tunnel in the module, and I will probly use that idea too as well. Does anyone have soem tips on explaining how they are so powerful so early, if I start them at level 2. Or is the best aproach just to say that they had just practiced a lot as kids? Thank everyone for their help and support, the fisrt session is next week Friday or Saterday, so i have lots of time prepare. I really think i might just fudge it, as i dont really like the idea of a cleric in the party.
Thxs

 

[TheNameless14590]

I'm starting to think that Iwill have them at lvl. 2, have Erky be a gnome who runs the base camp and distribut the healing for a while. Eventualy he will be killed by Elemental assasians? I dont want him to ever fight, but just kinda be a healer guy who knows a lot about the local area and weill give out advice as needed. Thanks for the website madman.

 

[maddman75]

I'd suggest you don't decide ahead of time how long Erky will be along. If they tire of him, he can always just retire. WHen I had him I had him take a crossbow. He'd go to heal, cast a buff spell, or pop a bolt at someone in that order of priority. Your players may end up liking him. I half expected him to be sent out of the dungeon on his own, but he stayed with the group for quite a while.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Does anyone have soem tips on explaining how they are so powerful so early, if I start them at level 2. Or is the best aproach just to say that they had just practiced a lot as kids?

Well, there's no rule that says characters have to start out at 1st level. But it can be fun to take a neophyte character and build it up from almost nothing.

All player characters are sort of assumed to have some experience/training from their background/previous life before becoming adventurers.

You could start them out at first level, but don't have them start right away at the Sunless Citadel, or the village nearby. Have them start somewhere a distance away, then throw some small encounters at them as they travel to the Citadel. The encounters should be challenging, but not overwhelming. Have them hit second level as they reach the Citadel.

Or you can do what I did, let them be Level 2 characters, but only have 1 level in two seperate classes. This way, they are a little more powerful than single-class 1st-level characters, but a little less powerful than single-class 2nd-level characters. You can explain this as just being part of their background/previous life experience/training. For example, one of our characters was a Rogue/Fighter. The player wanted the character to be a thief. So I decided the character had been caught committing a crime in a city in my campaign world (Greyhawk). There was a small war going on at the time, so she was given a choice -- serve time in prison, or serve in the city's military. She took the military service, and when she was discharged, she was a Rogue/Fighter.

 

[TheNameless14590]

I liek the idea a/b having them have tow levels in different classes, but how does that make them less powerful? Can anyone explain? But i think itd be a good way to let charecters be able to use wands, scrolls, or have more skill points. gracies Shadowdancer.
I'm not so much as worried about the party tiring of Erky, I'm worried about me tiring of Erky. If anyone has any ideas on how to make Erky a very unigue charecter, with an agenda that fits the campian. Or some ideas, it would be extremly appreciated, dont really want sterotyipical, ecdentric gnome, but i also cant think of a very good way to make a slightly sinister, though good aligned, gnome.
I now that I'm askign for a lot, for a new member who no one really knows since i never did one of those who i am, age sct thing. I htink its really cool how so many people are helping out.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I liek the idea a/b having them have tow levels in different classes, but how does that make them less powerful? Can anyone explain? But i think itd be a good way to let charecters be able to use wands, scrolls, or have more skill points. gracies Shadowdancer.

You're welcome. As for multiclass characters being less powerful than single-class characters of the same character level, this might just be my interpretation (or misinterpretation) of the mechanics of the game.

But let me try an example. Say you have a first-level wizard. When you become a second-level wizard, you gain access to more spells per day, making the wizard more powerful as a wizard. But, if instead of taking a level in wizard, you take a level in rogue, you are not as powerful as a wizard as a second-level wizard is. You are a more versatile character, and get some new abilities that a wizard usually doesn't have, but you are not as powerful in a particular class as a single-class character is in that same class.

It comes more into play as you go up in levels. A Rogue 2/Wizard 2 would be less powerful than a Wizard 4 or a Rogue 4. To use a poker analogy, four of a kind is a better hand than two pair. And a simple pair (level 2 in one class) is better than an ace and a king.

There are certainly benefits to being multiclassed. In fact, the game's rules practically encourage it by making it so easy. But multiclassed characters do not gain power as fast as single-class characters. That's the trade-off: More power vs. more versatility.