D&D 5E New playtest packet available.

[WizarDru]

One of my players noted something and we're not sure if it's an inconsistency, an error or intentional. The Barbarian's Martial Damage Dice Entry says: "You regain your spent Martial Damage Dice at the start of each turn, whether your turn or someone else's.". The Cleric, Fighter and Monk entries merely specify that you can't use a spent die on the same turn, but says nothing about regaining them. So is this intended to be the definitive answer to when martial damage dice replenish? I know during our playtest that question was one we were unsure of, due to the wording. We guessed that it meant that your dice replenished at the start of your turn, so you had to decide to spend them for damage/manuevers during your turn or reserve them for reaction maneuvers like Parry after your turn.

 

[Rune]

It's 5 points in the absolute sense, but 10% from the player's perspective. And no, 0/10 doesn't figure in here. +1's increase in relative value as the absolute chance of hitting decreases (and vice-versa).

See my last post for a response to this.

When we're talking game design, I don't think it's debatable at all. Math is math, and the better the designers do, the less there is to worry about on the other side.

I'm not discounting that the game shouldn't be mathematically sound. I just disagree with what that means in context. In 4e, largely because of the riders, a consistent target roll was very desirable. Because the riders that a player would want to attach were dependent on the situation, balancing them against damage cannot realistically be done with math only. Also, in practice, a lot of the "cool" that most roles did was in riders, which, if they didn't activate, made things not-fun (especially if the next turn was going to be a long way off).

I'm simply pointing out the math here. It's a working example of a bounded as opposed to an unbounded system, and ignoring the design lessons learned from it would be an error.

-O

Isn't not ignoring those design lessons exactly what we've been doing?

 

[Rune]

One of my players noted something and we're not sure if it's an inconsistency, an error or intentional. The Barbarian's Martial Damage Dice Entry says: "You regain your spent Martial Damage Dice at the start of each turn, whether your turn or someone else's.". The Cleric, Fighter and Monk entries merely specify that you can't use a spent die on the same turn, but says nothing about regaining them. So is this intended to be the definitive answer to when martial damage dice replenish? I know during our playtest that question was one we were unsure of, due to the wording. We guessed that it meant that your dice replenished at the start of your turn, so you had to decide to spend them for damage/manuevers during your turn or reserve them for reaction maneuvers like Parry after your turn.

As mentioned by [MENTION=82759]WotC_Trevor[/MENTION] in this post, the way the barbarian's is worded is how they were intended to work all along. So, in other words, it's a clarification (that they didn't add to the other class's descriptions, for one reason or another).

 

[WizarDru]

As mentioned by [MENTION=82759]WotC_Trevor[/MENTION] in this post, the way the barbarian's is worded is how they were intended to work all along. So, in other words, it's a clarification (that they didn't add to the other class's descriptions, for one reason or another).

Interesting. That makes the use of the dice (and the incentive to use them in a particular way) vary depending upon your position in the initiative order. Someone at the beginning of the order might have more reason to save them for a Parry maneuver since everyone is coming after him (and likewise someone at the end is more likely to spend them greedily, knowing they'll reset soon after their use). I'm not sure if that's good, bad or indifferent, but it certainly does influence their use (as opposed to having them renew at some point on your personal turn relatively, rather than absolutely with the game turn).

 

[Rune]

Interesting. That makes the use of the dice (and the incentive to use them in a particular way) vary depending upon your position in the initiative order. Someone at the beginning of the order might have more reason to save them for a Parry maneuver since everyone is coming after him (and likewise someone at the end is more likely to spend them greedily, knowing they'll reset soon after their use). I'm not sure if that's good, bad or indifferent, but it certainly does influence their use (as opposed to having them renew at some point on your personal turn relatively, rather than absolutely with the game turn).

That's the start of each turn, not the start of each round. Because they refresh on every turn within the initiative cycle, there will be no situation where a fighter couldn't parry due to lack of martial dice (although lack of a reaction or being attacked from range would still prevent it).

 

[Grimmjow]

They can start by removing the totally unneded "martial damage bonus".

From every class, while they're at it.

they did say in the playtest that they know damage is inflated. hopfully it'll be fixed in the next one

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, the Known Issues part of the Read This First document does indicate that they know certain characters are dealing too much damage.

Eh... what can I say? I have managed to playtest only 3 evenings so far, and I think I've seen ONE combat last more than 2 rounds. It does feel to me that PC damage is too high!

 

[mlund]

(Interestingly, the rules don't provide any way to start out with a stat higher than 17--after race and class adjustments--without rolling dice.)

They do for humans. Taking the Extremis Array example in the rules you could do this:

Strength: 18 (15 Base + 2 Human + 1 Barbarian)
Constitution: 16 (15 Base + 1 Human)
Dexterity: 16 (15 Base + 1 Human)
Intelligence: 9 (8 Base + 1 Human)
Wisdom: 9 (8 Base + 1 Human)
Charisma: 9 (8 Base + 1 Human)

Now is that tactically superior to say, skipping the 10' of extra movement and just taking Scale Mail Armor and something like S18 C16 D14 I9 W12 C10? Probably not - especially if you even manage to find +1 armor. Still, it's nice to know you can still have 16 AC running around in nothing but a loincloth swinging a two-handed sword. Plus I guess it helps if you want to be stealthy. (Scale Mail gives you Disadvantage. Having no clothes makes you invisible.)

 

[avin]

Mearls just tweeted the exploration rules were removed from the packet but not from the overview.

Haven't followed next for some time, has he hinted how this is going to work?

 

[mlund]

Interesting. That makes the use of the dice (and the incentive to use them in a particular way) vary depending upon your position in the initiative order. Someone at the beginning of the order might have more reason to save them for a Parry maneuver since everyone is coming after him (and likewise someone at the end is more likely to spend them greedily, knowing they'll reset soon after their use). I'm not sure if that's good, bad or indifferent, but it certainly does influence their use (as opposed to having them renew at some point on your personal turn relatively, rather than absolutely with the game turn).

You have it backwards. Martial Damage Dice "reset" at the start of each turn - yours, mine, and each monster's. There is no "saving" martial damage dice. The only resource you are actually conserving is your Reaction - do I want to Parry -this- attack, the next one, or maybe hold out to make an Opportunity Attack?

I recommend if a Martial character wants to stick to an enemy he should delay his initiative until immediately before his opponent. That way if the enemy moves away, he takes his OA, but if the enemy chooses not to move away he can freely parry the next hit against him without worrying about his quarry slipping away unpunished.

- Marty Lund