New Playtest up...

[Wulf Ratbane]

I loved hearing this too. I can't tell you how much i hate picking up an official adventure and seeing all the enemies with "platemail +1." The NEED for magic in 3.5 is so prolific, to keep both PC's and monsters on an even playing field, that it totally sucks away any sense of magic to actually find a magic item. And then it introduces the whole sub-game of selling your loot off, which essentially turns D&D into Diablo.

Just take magic items away from everybody.

The math works out, you're basically balanced again.

Sure, you're going to have to fix certain kinds of DR, AC and HPs and Saves might have to come down to account for the lack of Ability Booster items, and so forth...

I mean, really, if NOBODY has "The Big Six" and nobody NEEDS the Big Six, then you don't have this crazy magic item arms race where you're constantly trying to scrape up enough money to upgrade your magic items.

And then you can give the players some really cool, meaningful magic items, like maybe Murlynd's Spoon, which has been sadly overlooked for years and years-- it's a crime, really.

And all because players have this crazy idea that AVATAR EMPOWERMENT is important, and that KILLING BAD GUYS AND TAKING THEIR STUFF is a means to that end-- either directly (by taking and using the loot immediately) or indirectly (by selling the loot and upgrading).

Instead of making the players loot a bunch of items that they have to sell, why not just cut out the middleman and give them the gold in the first place!

Gold which, we now know, you WON'T need to spend on empowering your character. So you can spend it on...

What, exactly?

I understand my character is guaranteed competent without the "Christmas Tree" of magic items. That's a good thing.

So what am I spending my gold on?

Do I get to spend my gold on training?

Ale and whores?

Why am I killing bad guys and taking their stuff?

Yes, yes, I know that killing bad guys is a good thing in and of itself...

But where's the taking their stuff part?

Killing bad guys AND taking their stuff... that's one hefty heifer.

 

[mhensley]

One thing really bothers me about these playtests... they are using a bunch of races and classes that aren't going to be in the game when it is released (and by their own words, haven't really been developed yet).

Why can't our official playtest reports be with elements that will actually be included in the Core books?

QFT, this sounded more like a playtest of his homerules.

 

[Nebulous]

Just take magic items away from everybody.

The math works out, you're basically balanced again.

No, i LOVE magic items! I just don't like seeing them so much. Oh, i've houseruled my own games to reflect my playing style, that's not a problem. It would just be cool to see the core rules bend more towards the way i like to play. So there's about a gazillion people hoping that 4e is catered just to them.

Gold which, we now know, you WON'T need to spend on empowering your character. So you can spend it on...

What, exactly?

I would love to see a simple mechanic where you lose $$ per game month on unexplained daily expenses, determined by the DM and the Pc's living style. In addition to spending moolah on magic, it would be incentive to going out to get more, because you're drying up the well a little more every day.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

No, i LOVE magic items! I just don't like seeing them so much. Oh, i've houseruled my own games to reflect my playing style, that's not a problem. It would just be cool to see the core rules bend more towards the way i like to play. So there's about a gazillion people hoping that 4e is catered just to them.

I would love to see a simple mechanic where you lose $$ per game month on unexplained daily expenses, determined by the DM and the Pc's living style. In addition to spending moolah on magic, it would be incentive to going out to get more, because you're drying up the well a little more every day.

Then you should be playing d20 Conan.

 

[Nebulous]

Then you should be playing d20 Conan.

\

I have, i like it. I like D&D better though. Does Conan have that Wealth mechanic? Sounds vaguely familiar...

 

[Kaodi]

For one, I find the playtest reports to be too short. They ought to have some meat on them. Having only one " cool " moment per report does not exactly inspire confidence and chomping at the bit for 4e. There needs to be more game narrative, I think.

 

[Jer]

For one, I find the playtest reports to be too short. They ought to have some meat on them. Having only one " cool " moment per report does not exactly inspire confidence and chomping at the bit for 4e. There needs to be more game narrative, I think.

I think they're afraid of spoilers right now. And given what was said in the 4e podcast, at least part of that is probably due to the fact that the rules are still in a state of flux - they don't want to commit to anything because it's still at a stage where things can change. I suspect that in the next few months we'll see more detailed playtest reports with more meat on them. Right now I would imagine they're more than a little concerned about dropping some piece of info that will get the fanbase excited/outraged only to have it end up getting completely cut before the book is finalized. And since there's already enough to get the fanbase excited/outraged about they probably don't need to add fuel to that fire.

 

[Nebulous]

I think they're afraid of spoilers right now. And given what was said in the 4e podcast, at least part of that is probably due to the fact that the rules are still in a state of flux - they don't want to commit to anything because it's still at a stage where things can change. I suspect that in the next few months we'll see more detailed playtest reports with more meat on them. Right now I would imagine they're more than a little concerned about dropping some piece of info that will get the fanbase excited/outraged only to have it end up getting completely cut before the book is finalized. And since there's already enough to get the fanbase excited/outraged about they probably don't need to add fuel to that fire.

I have to agree. There's so much that's uncertain it wouldn't be wise for them to give us too much information. Personally, i'm quite pleased with what they HAVE given us, supplemented by all the educated guesses and rampant speculation from everyone here.

 

[(contact)]

Ale and whores?

Ale and whores FTW!

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Meh. I use Wealth rules in my games, converted out of d20Modern. They are much hated by many on the boards, but I find they work wonderfully for me.

I found, using Wealth rules, that players tended to spend their money on different things AND, for some reason, they didn't spend all of their money on one item. Usually in D&D folks scrape up every last penny to buy The Upgraded Item, while in Wealth there was something about depleting the score to 0 that my players avoided. They were buying art pieces, jewelry to present as suitors, diplomatic gifts, etc etc. For whatever reason the different monetary system changed the whole way they looked at the campaign.

But that's me. I'll probably use the same methodology in 4E when that comes out, since it works out so well for my play style. The GP accounting never quite rang my bell.

I, for one, would very much like to see playtest accounts of NEW GAMES using the rules from the ground up. This stuff is more confusing than it is elucidating. Are there gnomes or is he now a halfling? Are there warlocks or are we calling it a warlock? Are warforged core?

I mean, for as much as they're converting and houseruling and using stuff that isn't in the core and calling a Mule a Horse, I'm sort of left with very little takeaway.

--fje