New Podcast Posted!

Lonely Tylenol

First Post
Rechan said:
If the SRD added all the stuff from the PHBx/MMx, I would be ecstatic. But then, I run D&D games online, so being able to flick back and forth into this window with the monster's stats and that window where the game is happening is a huge boon.
Well, hopefully, the digital versions of the books that can be unlocked will be designed for maximal functionality in this way, as opposed to just being scans of the books.
 

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Drkfathr1

First Post
As far as certain Iconic critters not being in the 1st MM they release...I think we'll certainly see 3rd party publishers produce their own versions of said critters. Espeically when the next MM won't be out for a year. Since most of those "iconics" are already part of the existing OGL, there won't be anything stopping Paizo, Necromancer, etc. from giving us those monsters early.

I certainly don't think that's a good idea. Unless the fundamental nature of 'Giants' is changing in this edition.

Also, (and I know this is just my perception from the podcast) does it seem to anyone else like we might be treading back into 1st Edition waters when it comes to monster special abilities? It almost sounds like they're going to be designing monster abilities differently for each monster. Not that its a big deal, but it almost sounds a little muddy.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
Kunimatyu said:
While I'm really not happy about Frost Giants not being included (classic norse myth ftw!), I suspect it may have something to do with the monster combos -- that is, perhaps there weren't enough monsters that DMs could combo with them and still have it make sense.
Ice Azers
 

FadedC

First Post
Current HD for monsters aren't just about hit points. They also effect a monsters attack rolls, skills, feats, saves, saving throw DCs and possibly other things I'm not remembering right now. I think they said that was why some monsters ended up really lopsided, because if you wanted to boost certain creature types attack bonus or hit points to a significant level, you ended up sending everything else into the stratosphere too.
 

Knight Otu

First Post
Monster Hit Dice were responsible for quite a few evils in the 3.X ruleset, from level adjustments that do not work to brutes with skill points rivalling those of rogues and feats rivalling those of fighters (even if they occasionally took the shape of a few rons of Toughness). I've previously posted that they should be removed (along with player hit dice), to be replaced by another simple method of hp generation (presumably involving size, Constitution, and a bit of level). Their removal may not be 15 years overdue, but at least 5 years.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Merric B! :)

MerricB said:
Encounters populated with monsters "on the fly" by James Wyatt: (28:13)

12th level encounter for 5 PCs in the underground/underdark: (done in 1 minute)
Ghost (Controller)
Human Fighter Death Knight (Elite Soldier)
Runecarved Eilodon (Lurker/Leader)

(29:20)
8th level PCs walking through the forest: (1 min 50)
Owlbear - Elite Brute
Quickling Runner - Skirmisher
Satyr Piper - Controller
Werewolf

3rd level PCs guarding a caravan moving through the caravan on the road.
(31:15)
Young White Dragon! (heh!) - took James 3 seconds for that one!

OR

2 Hobgoblin Soldiers - Soldier
Hobgoblin Archer - Artillery
Goblin Hexer - Controller (20 seconds)

32:10 - 15th level PCs who accidentally teleport into Dispater's Fortress. What's a patrol look like?
4 Legion Devils (Soldier Minions)
Bone Devil (17th level Controller)
Eye of Flame (Artillery)

Also:
Bar-Lgura Demon (Brute)
Angels of Valour (16th level Minion Soldiers)

Cheers!

The above seems to suggest.

Minion = 1/4 standard
Elite = x2 standard (I wonder is a PC a defacto Elite character?)
Level 17 = x3 standard Level 15...would a Level 19 be equal to x5 Level 15?

So 20 (Level 1) Goblin minions would be a good challenge for 5 1st-level PCs. Does that mean minions are effectively 3 levels less powerful, while elites are one level more powerful. If so, then why not just make them lower and/or higher level? Interesting.
 

JVisgaitis

Explorer
The funny thing about listening to this was their reasoning for a lot of the monsters. "Why do we need two underground racial humanoids?" We had many a conversation like that when we released Denizens of Avadnu. That's the crux of that whole book–every monster must bring something unique to the table.

I don't agree that the new edition allows them to make monsters cooler. It wasn't the games fault that everything had improved grab. It was the design philosophy and this could have certainly been done in 3.x. Hell, we did it.

Not that I'm complaining at all. They are going out of their way to make the game exciting again and I'm definitely psyched about that. I just find it funny that they think 4e magically grants them access to better mechanics.
 


Vigilance

Explorer
jgbrowning said:
Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm?

joe b.

I dunno... I always found the giants to be somewhat interchangeable, just like the humanoids. Bugbear is cool, but it was clearly designed as the humanoid between Gnoll and Ogre.

I guess I can see wanting your selection, its a classic mix, but the fact is, if the second MM is coming quick, I can see a case to be made for the first MM to have more lower level monsters.

Basically, this choice doesn't matter much to me, it certainly doesn't outrage me or anything (not saying you're outraged).
 

Dire Bare

Legend
BryonD said:
How's this for one of the truth bombs:

"What are these Hit Dice you speak of?" - James

My guess is that both PCs and Monsters (NPCs) will have the concept of HD replaced by the similiar, but definitely not the same, concept of LEVEL. Hit points will increase a set amount per level.

For example, lets say the ogre over there is a 3rd Level Brute, and for each level he gets 10 hit points. Just like my human 3rd Level Wizard will get 4 hit points per level.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
jgbrowning said:
Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm?

joe b.

The problem with the need to include the most iconic monsters in the first Monster Manual is that everybody's list of "must haves" is going to be different. They can't put them ALL in, even if they leave out all new monsters and monsters created after the year 2000!

So, while I'd like to see Frost Giants in the first MM, the fact they won't be doesn't really bother me at all.

A Monster Manual that included all the D&D monsters that have become "iconic" and important to the game would be massive!!! And, I might add, very cool! How about a 700 page behemoth that could kill your Physics textbook with a glance and cost a mere $150 for full-color many monsters goodness!?! I would so go for that! (I'm serious!)
 

TwinBahamut

First Post
jgbrowning said:
Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm?

joe b.
I'd say Common Giant, Frost Giant, and Fire Giant, myself. I don't like the name "hill giant", stone giants are redundant, and I never liked Cloud or Storm giants.
 

Charwoman Gene

Adventurer
Upper_Krust said:
If so, then why not just make them lower and/or higher level? Interesting.

*speculating*

Target Numbers.

Minions have appropriate ACs, but low HP, minions have appropriate attack bonuses, but low damage.

Elites go the other way.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
TwinBahamut said:
I'd say Common Giant, Frost Giant, and Fire Giant, myself. I don't like the name "hill giant", stone giants are redundant, and I never liked Cloud or Storm giants.
Agreed, those are the best three. Or just have one giant. Make fire and frost variants by applying the fire and cold templates to an advanced common giant.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
4e elites seem very similar to World of Warcraft elites. In WoW they have 5 times the hit ppoints and do twice the damage of normal monsters of that level. In fact the whole concept of levelled monsters with brute, caster versions etc having modified stats is very much like WoW's approach.
 

Baby Samurai

Banned
Banned
Doug McCrae said:
Or just have one giant. Make fire and frost variants by applying the fire and cold templates to an advanced common giant.

Yeah, this would be the best way to go.

You could customize to your heart's content – large frost giant, huge fire giant, colossal ocean giant etc.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Doug McCrae said:
4e elites seem very similar to World of Warcraft elites. In WoW they have 5 times the hit ppoints and do twice the damage of normal monsters of that level. In fact the whole concept of levelled monsters with brute, caster versions etc having modified stats is very much like WoW's approach.
Awgeez, thanks for fanning the "More like an MMO" flames. ;)

Though when I think of "Elite" monsters, I think of Diablo II. The Elites were often unique monsters who had an ability like 'hit it and it pulses energy that hits you' or was just really, really tough.
 

Knight Otu

First Post
Charwoman Gene said:
*speculating*

Target Numbers.

Minions have appropriate ACs, but low HP, minions have appropriate attack bonuses, but low damage.

Elites go the other way.
Elites presumably get to perform a few tons of free actions much like the dragon in the playtest fight, along with extra actions and the like. This has the potential to be expandable beyond elites that count as two monsters to high elites that count as three, and so on (dragon fight, again?).
That doesn't work too well in reverse, however, as this would lead to minions that would need to share their actions amongst each other (a move and an attack, among four monsters), especially in light of the "fights are more mobile" paradigm." It might work if each minion only gets one action (move or attack) per turn like zombies currently do, though that is not as easily expandable (i.e. if you wanted to have a "nuisance" or "pest level" where each pest counts as 1/8 of a monster).
 

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