New Podcast Posted!

[Tharen the Damned]

How often do you fight something a whole lot like a Frost Giant but lacking the "frost" parts? Now how often do you fight something a whole lot like a roc, or like Orcus? Of the three, Frost Giants seem the easiest to jury-rig out of an existing monster; slap a level-appropriate white dragon breath weapon on a hill giant, give it two more hit dice and some extra strength, paint it blue, beef up its level, and send it out there. Ultimately, the mechanics define nothing more than a bag of HP, damage, XPs, and loot that trundles around the battlefield challenging PCs. It's up to the DM's narration and characterization to make it scream 'frost giant'.

Well, Roc is simply an overlarge eagle. Slap a few HD on the eagle and voila, the Roc is there. We don't need this monster either according to you.

Orcus is just a powerful Balor. Give him some Ram horns and a potbelly and a magic cudgel. Slap on some Hit Dice and special abilities and there he is. Easy too according to you.

We have all these Monsters in the MMs that we DMs do NOT have to have this work of slapping this and that on another Monster but to simply use it out of the book.

There are too many responses to this; there's absolutely nothing to do with RPG design in pumping out the same thing every damn time, I don't think I've ever used a frost giant or even seen one used (which is anecdotal and useless), snip

I have used them often. And I think other DMs have used them too. Deducting from your own experience does not make statistical evidence.

snip offering something original is a great way to go about grabbing money because people want it, I for one welcome our new Briar Witch overlords, and even "I don't see how it's money-grabbing, since this forum has taught me people fear and resent the unfamiliar". Take your favorite.

Did I say something AGAINST the Brair Witch? I love new Monsters. If they are interesting i will use them of course. I neither fear nor resent the unfamilar.

My argument was that the Frost Giant as Monster is considered a classic Monster and used often since 1st edition while I can not remember the Briar Witch as a Monster.

We need a notary, express written consent to make money has been given by some guy on a forum!.

That comment did not help the discussion at all.

On the other hand, you might not be the Emperor's Truthsayer after all, and they really do want to expand the mental definition of core.

Never said that I am the Emperor's Truthsayer. this was just my opinion. Next time I post my opinion I will state in bold Letters :
MY OPINION, I MIGHT BE WRONG WITH THIS AS I DO NOT HAVE MORE INFORMATION THAN YOU!
if that helps you.







I

 

[Stoat]

I won't have a chance to listen to the podcast until tonight. How similar are the 4E monster roles (or whatever they call 'em) to the monster roles described in Dungeonscape?

 

[Shroomy]

I'm not too concerned about the Frost Giant not appearing right away, but I'm stoked that the quickling is reappearing!

 

[Rechan]

I will say this.

I want monsters that appear in the MM to be usable. Not just 'I'll throw this in there once', but I want to have a reason to throw these guys at my PCs multiple times. I just don't get a buzz off a quickling.

 

[Shroomy]

What can I say, I love, love, love fey...more than giants.

 

[Chaldfont]

I just listened to the podcast on the commute this morning. I really like that they are making the monsters easier to run. I also like that you can have more old school encounters (you get ambushed by 20 goblins!). And I like Mike Mearls' talk about exception-based design. I really didn't have a problem that different monsters had different mechanics in AD&D. The standard rules like Swallow Whole and Improved Grab in 3rd Edition just make the monsters more generic.

I know now that I will buy into 4e. How do I know? During the podcast I was already thinking of a new campaign.

 

[grimslade]

Well, i think it is plain ridiculous to have the Roc and Orcus in the MM1 but not the Frost Giant.
I mean, how often did you fight a Roc and how often do you fight Orcus compared to Frost Giants?
Frost Giant, one of the classic Monsters is out.
But the Briar Witch is in.
Huh?
This has nothing to do with RPG design but everything with money grabbing.
As WoC are a business company, that is ok.
But why do we have to get such lame excuses as "we want to make all MM core!?

I am disappointed to not have an 'official' frost giant next summer. I too believe it is an iconic and important monster. The Roc is more than a big bird and I welcome its return. Orcus rocks he is in there for a high/epic level threat.
That said, I like some of the direction of the new monsters we are hearing about. A Briar Witch Dryad tree striding around the battle field through here twisted treant thralls? Sign me up. I can afford to lose some 'iconic' and favorite monsters if the new monsters fill a previously unfilled niche. Ymir protect them for every Yrthak and Tojanida they throw in the MM1 that could have been a Frost Giant though.

On the money grubbing thing, the only thing that 'Core' represented was a shorthand for allowable books in a DMs campaign. Instead of saying Core you say v.1 of the PHB, DMG and MM. You can then pick and choose out of the yearly updates. I hope that the cycle of new core books will prevent the one-upsmanship of 3.5 splats. Use the New Core to fill in holes in the rules not circumvent rules.

 

[Wormwood]

One thing I liked about the podcast was the discussion about Guardinals.

Apparently, the designers are on precisely the same page as I am about concepts as "the plane of Neutral Good."

I mean seriously . . . why the hell is there a Plane of Neutral Good?

 

[Cadfan]

They HAD to eliminate some of the monsters.

Look at the 3.5 Monster Manual. See how many pages it is? Now think of how many pages it would be if they added on all the core-worthy monsters from other Monster Manuals and expansions. It would be enormous.

So the choices were 1) keep all the classic monsters and include few or no popular but newer monsters, or 2) add some popular, newer monsters, maybe even write some completely new monsters, and eliminate some of the more redundant older monsters and maybe put them in a later book.

I'm glad they chose option two.

I'll miss elementals of different sizes, but if they have rules for adjusting monster levels up and down, actually statting them out would take up valuable space without doing a whole lot for me as a DM. So I'll probably be ok with this. I won't miss Frost Giants, or even Dragons of every possible color, assuming those get cut. I can change the elemental damage of a dragon's breath weapon on my own. And maybe when those things get added back in, they'll be more than just an effort at filling out a matrix of elements and colors.

 

[Zaukrie]

My "concern" about the Frost Giant is the time lag between MMs. If a lot of classic monsters will be in MM2, I don't know I want to wait 12 months for MM2. Generally, with a new edition, I could easily buy 2-3 MMs per year (Paizo and GR, are you listening? I want great, cool outsider type books for 4E - and I trust you 2 to do it/them).