New review of the Book of Erotic Fantasy

[Mallus]

I'd like to talk about how this book might be useful in one of my games... [and mind you, that's might, I haven't seen it yet].

There is a prestige class in my homebrew called Lovesworn who reunite lost lovers. Their inception dates back to the time of an ancient high-magic empire who used permanent teleportation gates to link all their major cities into one megalopolis which spanned continents. Over time, conventional travel fell away, leaving the empires citizens dependant on the gates. Like all good empires, it was rife with political struggles, and a favored tactic of the warring nobles was to strip their rivals loved ones [particularly the non-noble or extramarital types] of their gate access privilages, thus leaving sets of lovers stranded with continents worth of barbarian-filled hinterlands between them. The Order of the Lovesworn, armed with knowledge of the overland/sea routes, and with heavy weapons, armor, and some magical abilities, acted as guides and protectors who brought brough these seperated lovers back together. Kinda romantic, isn't it? Not exactly morally degenerate.

Now from what little I've read about The Book of Erotic Fantasy, it sure does look like there's material in it that could help flesh these guys out [like the Soulmate stuff].

My setting also includes a Goddess of Love [Aja Opal Blossom} who started out as a mortal courtesan who eventually married an immortal being [a rather genteel fallen angel named Erebus], then divorced him, winning semi-divinity in the settlement [the fallen angel also elevated his losing attorney to godhood as punishment. Imagine being God of Lawyers, having to spend enternity listening to the prayers of lawyers delivered in fervent legalese...]. I suspect The Book of Erotic Fantasy would help me fill out her priests spell list.

Do I need the book? Of course not. But then again, I don't need any rulebooks at all; at this point I'm perfectly capable of designing my own setting/system/splatbooks from scratch, if I cared to put the time into it. But I hold out that the Book of Erotic Fantasy might have some usable/inspirational material [of the non-Onanistic variety] in it for me.

 

[Xeriar]

The influence of the Puritans on "American values" is overstated, in my opinion.

Then you really ought to study other cultures more. Preferably without censoring blinders...

The U.S. is the most productive nation in the world, not only in total but also in per capita.

Learn Spanish and visit Spain, or learn Portugese and visit Brazil, or learn Japanese and visit Tokyo, learn Vietnamese and visit 'nam, learn Swahili and visit Kenya... stay there a few months and you will know.

Or... Go read books about Americans going to visit those countries. Learning to Bow is a good one about an English teacher going to Japan, for example.

You could probably get by and realize it without learning the languages, but it helps when you realize just how frank they are being.

America isn't unusually prudish or productive, we've just adopted the deterioration of old-fashioned values that is common to most of the world perhaps a bit more slowly than some. Reading between the lines on your post, I'd guess you think that's a bad thing, clearly (again between the lines) I disagree.

There is no golden age of moral values to go back to.

I mean, there is a cuniform tablet dated to 2600 B.C.E. on which the scribe is complaining about 'the moral decline of society and clearly this is a sign of the end times!'

...

No, it's just change. America is rather isolationist - even today - so many Americans don't think their restricted attitude about sex is unusual.

Sex gets plenty of discussion, and STDs are on the decline relative to historical numbers. You're flat-out wrong on that, at least.

Compared to the attention it gets in East Asia, Africa, Europe, and South America, it's a bit lacking. We get sex education, if we're lucky, we get it before puberty. Parents give their children 'the talk' afterwards, and this only after societal pressure to do so.

That isn't normal, no matter how much you claim it to be.

Speak for yourself. I've never played a game of wanton genocide in any sense of the term.

I've heard of few groups who would give an orc tribe the benefit of the doubt.

 

[hunter1828]

If my non-gaming friends see it, I'll probably end up having to explain "what the deal is" with said book.

I'd rather my non-gaming friends see, pick up and read through the Book of Erotic Fantasy that I have lying around than the Book of Vile Darkness. There's some disturbing stuff in the BoVD...

hunter1828

 

[Wombat]

Wow, this is getting exciting!

I mean, for me it was a matter of reading the review and looking at the pictures posted in the review, then deciding that A) the supplement wasn't my cuppa and B) that I had seen better art in my days.

Hey, I also don't have Nymphology, but no one thought a player was immature or jack-booted for not liking that one

My reaction was pretty much to the review-as-posted -- supplement doesn't fulfill any needs I anticipate in my games and the pictures posted in the review did not look good. Personal takes only, of course. This is not because of my "Puritan Morals" or any other such matter, but do I really need to dredge up a resume to say why I am allowed to like or dislike a product? Do I have to show my political, cultural, or artistic stripes before I can have an opinion? The reviewer didn't feel the need to, so neither do I, and that is very, very fair all around.

Oddly parallel case: I don't like the ELH. I don't own a copy. I see no need for it in my game. I know a lot of other people who do like it, which is good for them; I have even played in a couple of their games on an Epic level. I'm not going to tell them they either cannot or must like the book because of my personal tastes. I have read reviews that praised the book, determined that what was being praised did not fit my desires, and moved on.

The same can be said for book reviews, movie reviews, and the like.

Just because a review is positive (or negative) does not mean the product is for everyone.

I like (most) David Lynch films; I know a lot of folks who run screaming whenever the name is mentioned. Again, personal tastes.

Opinions are funny things. Everyone is allowed to have them. They don't match up very well. Sometimes people even hold contradictory values in their head simultaneously, although I know that is hard to believe.

In the end the fact that I will or will not buy the BoEF is neither here nor there. My interest (or lack thereof) may influence one or two friends, but probably not that many. I may find another book that I really like that others cannot stand. Such is as is. I support myself, I pay my rent, I have a certain amount of cash to put towards gaming books each season, and I make choices on these based on both needs and desires. So allow me my purchased, I shall allow each of you yours, and we need not justify why we chose one over another. We choose as we choose.

And for all of you who end up buying the BoEF, I hope the book is as good as you anticipated and that it fits your gaming needs! (Since this is the written word, however, and intonations are lacking, let me also say that this sentiment is 100% satire free.)

 

[Xeriar]

Oh, c'mon. We all know the real definition:
I read erotica.
You read sexually explicit material.
She reads pornography and smut.

It's a very subjective definition--one person's lyrical descriptions are another person's "that's too explicit and graphic" and over the line into pornography.

The term 'erotica' was coined due to the influences of Greek art. I mean, Christianity is so Hellenized... Calling the work of the Greeks mere 'base porn' is an insult to our cultural heritage!

Look up 'the unspeakable vice of the Greeks' for a few pages some would not touch no matter what

Some people do see a difference, though, and I respect that as much as I respect those who don't.

I just want it understood that there are other mindsets out there.

 

[Arnwyn]

hey now! i deny everything.

what i find fascinating is that the majority of people here are against this book.

there are literally hundreds of gaming products out there that glorify violence and other "evil" behaviors. no one seems concerned about that.

one book that has a frank discussion of sexuality and sexual themes, and everyone is up in arms.

makes me wonder some times...

Really? Wow.

I think many people realize that some "themes" are more appropriate at the gaming table with your friends than other themes. Further, that some activities and themes are more acceptable for a group than others.

(I haven't seen very much that "glorifies" violence, actually - but maybe people play differently than I do. My PCs try to help others and defeat - not slaughter - evil. Glorify violence? Haven't seen it.)

Some people might like sexual themes at the gaming table. I'm certainly not one of them. Creepy-icky-weird, IMO.

 

[mythago]

That's a question I've asked many times and never received an answer.

I *really* don't like badly-Photoshopped art in any context. If the photos are so good that they look real, instead of like a model pasted onto a fantasy scene with the lines blurred a bit, that'd be OK. It's not the explicitness, but the quality.

 

[hunter1828]

Really? Wow.

I think many people realize that some "themes" are more appropriate at the gaming table with your friends than other themes. Further, that some activities and themes are more acceptable for a group than others.

(I haven't seen very much that "glorifies" violence, actually - but maybe people play differently than I do. My PCs try to help others and defeat - not slaughter - evil. Glorify violence? Haven't seen it.)

Some people might like sexual themes at the gaming table. I'm certainly not one of them. Creepy-icky-weird, IMO.

Please, I respect your decision not to want the book. I respect your decision not to have sexual themes at your gaming table. Please, respect my decision to do so by not referring to me, and the others like me, as "creepy-icky-weird."

Thank you,

hunter1828

 

[hunter1828]

I *really* don't like badly-Photoshopped art in any context. If the photos are so good that they look real, instead of like a model pasted onto a fantasy scene with the lines blurred a bit, that'd be OK. It's not the explicitness, but the quality.

And that's fine. I wish everyone could express their dislikes as well and as simply as you have. I disagree with you, but I at least respect your POV.

hunter1828

 

[Desdichado]

Then you really ought to study other cultures more. Preferably without censoring blinders...

Cute.

The U.S. is the most productive nation in the world, not only in total but also in per capita.

That's not necessarily a Puritan value. Sure, the Puritans had a work ethic, but so did the Prussians, for instance. So do lots of cultures.

Learn Spanish and visit Spain, or learn Portugese and visit Brazil, or learn Japanese and visit Tokyo, learn Vietnamese and visit 'nam, learn Swahili and visit Kenya... stay there a few months and you will know.

Thanks for the condescension. As a matter of fact, I speak (spoke) Spanish fluently in lived in Argentina for two years. I'm afraid the "quaint, provincial American who doesn't know anything about the rest of the world" argument doesn't work with me.

There is no golden age of moral values to go back to.

I mean, there is a cuniform tablet dated to 2600 B.C.E. on which the scribe is complaining about 'the moral decline of society and clearly this is a sign of the end times!'

I'm well aware of that. That doesn't change the fact that "situational ethics" and open-ness about things that even earlier in my lifetime were not proper material to be open has certainly changed.

No, it's just change. America is rather isolationist - even today - so many Americans don't think their restricted attitude about sex is unusual.

See my post above.

Compared to the attention it gets in East Asia, Africa, Europe, and South America, it's a bit lacking. We get sex education, if we're lucky, we get it before puberty. Parents give their children 'the talk' afterwards, and this only after societal pressure to do so.

You paint Americans as if we're completely quiet about sex. That's never been the case in my lifetime. We had sex education in 5th grade (10 years old) back... 20+ years ago, and more detail every year until I graduated.

That isn't normal, no matter how much you claim it to be.

It's not backwards and prudish, no matter how much you claim it to be.

I've heard of few groups who would give an orc tribe the benefit of the doubt.

Get out more. I've heard of few groups that didn't, and I've heard of plenty that had non-evil orcs. In fact, the pdf adventure that came with the PHB years ago has non-evil orcs that you work with.

Besides, that's a misplaced argument. D&D players are typically placed against orcs because orcs are aggressive and adversarial. D&D characters are rarely the aggresors against orcs, or anyone else for that matter, in almost every game I've heard of. Also, orcs being anthropormorphic representations of evil and aggression is a tradition that goes back farther than D&D.