new rule: Caster Level = Character Level

[fireinthedust]

So I'm multi-classing spellcasters. They lose a caster level. That stinks. What I'm wondering is, would it be such a big deal if their Caster Level was the same as their Character level?

At what point would this be an issue?


I ask because NPC monsters I advance will have massively lower CLs, and therefore useless saves against high level PCs (my Paladin has +11 and +12 to saves due to Divine Grace, for example, without any magic items).

 

[TanisFrey]

A feat from complete arcane can partly help you, Practiced Spellcaster. It lets you add up to 4 effective levels a spellcasting class up to no greater that your it dice. The feat does not give additional per day but you effective spellcaster level goes up.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[fireinthedust]

See, I'm thinking specifically two groups:

1) Monster casters who I've added levels to; thus gauging more accurately their CR

2) Mystic Theurge characters: I need to be able to hit hard with them, and have Saves that will challenge monsters. Otherwise, they're a secondary caster for buffs. Not a bad thing, but boring in a small party.
Ditto for Eldritch Knights, or what have you. I don't want *more* spells, or even higher level than they've earned, but balancing things out for CL.


Monsters are a big issue. I like the challenge, and I suppose I should worry more about a particular encounter rather than crafting the perfect NPC in a simulation. Still, it'd be great to have a powerful ancient spellcasting mentor for a PC who actually casts spells of a higher level.

 

[Sigurd]

Its part of the balance feature for prestige classes. How unbalancing it would be depends on how necessary it was in the first place. I'd never do it - there should be some benefit for staying with a core casting class. You should have more time for learning magic if you're not specializing in other things.

I'd be more likely to use a feat to buy back a few levels of spellcaster like Practiced Spellcaster.

If you simply remove the limitations a min\maxing mindset will find things to abuse.

If its a really isolated case it might be insignificant but I'd still pay for it with a feat or something.


Sigurd

 

[Voadam]

The main power of a straight caster is their top level spells. A straight 17th level wizard caster will still magically outclass a fighter 16 wiz 1 even though they both could cast 5d4+5 damage in magic missiles at the CR 17 monster with possible CR 17 SR. This is because the wizard will be doing 9th level meteor swarm spells as his top level spell while the wizard fighter is doing 1st level magic missiles.

Consider a 10/10 sorcerer/wizard with caster level 20. He is a full caster just splitting between spontaneous innate power and learned prepared magic. He has spell slots and max spell levels of a 10th level caster but he's going against the same monsters as the other 20th level casters and noncasters in his party. As a 20th level PC focused entirely on casting should he be half as good at penetrating SR and should his top tier 5th level cone of cold be reduced 10 caster levels on top of being his top tier spell compared to his compatriots throwing around 9th level spells?

As for monsters it is your choice for flavor, many have racial HD that will add caster levels. It seems appropriate for dragons and demons and such to be innately magically strong even if limited to lower level spells, less so for troll or ogre shamen and witch doctors.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think using character level for caster level is a great house rule. You still lose out on the most important things: access to higher level spells and more spells per day, but at least the spells you have aren't completely ineffective because they do pitiful damage and can't possibly penetrate spell resistance. Let's say I have one level in wizard and 9 levels in fighter. Is having a couple 5d4 +5 magic missiles per day really going to break the game? I think not!

 

[rgard]

I personally wouldn't make the caster level equal the character level.

However, if you want to go that way at maximum I would limit the added levels to other spell caster levels.

The other thing you could do would be to make Practiced Spellcaster pick up 6 or 8 levels as opposed to the 4 levels normally gives.

 

[Stormonu]

I do think there is some merit to this. For example, the wizard still gets an increasing bonus to base attack - the meat of fighter's progression, even if he doesn't get feats as fast. I'd probably go with a ranking similar to BAB. Levels of non-spellcasters would increase the slowest (1/2 level), semi-spell users would increase at a moderate amount (3/4 level) and full spellcasters would increase at a good amount (equal to level).

Edit: Consider the extremes - a Fighter 19/Wizard 1 and a Wizard 19/Fighter 1. In the current game, the first gets the advantage to toss Magic Missile or True Strike once or twice a day. The other is throwing down Meteor Swarms while wearing full plate mail and buffing his two-handed sword (or whatever weapon he chooses). Doesn't seem that fair of trade off.

 

[Sigurd]

I don't see its any different than letting a character continue his best BAB or saves or skill total. For an NPC it won't break the game but it removes one of the only penalties built into the prestige class system.


Sigurd