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New rule of 3 . Feb 21.


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See, that's why I thought the Fighter as "master of feats' in 3e worked.

By giving the fighter a very basic set of abilities, and a huge amount of customization room, you could take the character whichever way you wanted.

Now, there may have been problem with the execution of feats, or the execution of AC, or attack bonuses, or full attacks, but the basic concept was sound.

If you want an archetype that covers enormous ground, you need to build it the same way - simple core, lots of flexibility.
 

See, that's why I thought the Fighter as "master of feats' in 3e worked.

By giving the fighter a very basic set of abilities, and a huge amount of customization room, you could take the character whichever way you wanted.

Now, there may have been problem with the execution of feats, or the execution of AC, or attack bonuses, or full attacks, but the basic concept was sound.

If you want an archetype that covers enormous ground, you need to build it the same way - simple core, lots of flexibility.
I think it would be a lot more elegant and effective to simply not make a class that tries to cover so much ground... Anyways, the basic concept of the 3E Fighter was not sound, simply because its focus on small optional benefits left it utterly unable to compete with the very significant class features of better classes.

Anyways, this Rule of Three is one of the more encouraging signs I've seen out of WotC over the last few weeks. It's nice to see them openly talk about how a problem is difficult, without trying to convince us that there is some obvious and easy solution to be found in older rules. Seeing that thought process was interesting.

The monster talk was also interesting. As long as we don't get the unnecessarily convoluted rules from 3E and still see some of the humanoid monster variety seen in 4E, I really won't begrudge those who want to give monsters class levels and templates. Also, I don't think a vampiric half-celestial animated chair is rules-legal, but it is very funny. :)
 

I thought his comments regarding marking and defender auras were the most interesting:

The 4th edition fighter derives much of its mechanics from the powers system; what would the fighter look like if powers were optional? In 4E, the fighter would be left with marking or defender aura, but I would argue that the fighter's defender mechanics are representative of a play style that should be available to many different character archetypes, and not be the sole province of the fighter.

EDITED TO ADD: This implies a divorce of combat role from class. I like.
 
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See, that's why I thought the Fighter as "master of feats' in 3e worked.

By giving the fighter a very basic set of abilities, and a huge amount of customization room, you could take the character whichever way you wanted.

Now, there may have been problem with the execution of feats, or the execution of AC, or attack bonuses, or full attacks, but the basic concept was sound.

If you want an archetype that covers enormous ground, you need to build it the same way - simple core, lots of flexibility.


This is why I've been hoping D&Dn to gets a stance system and give the fighter the best access. Players could master one stance for one strong strategy or take many stances for many tactics.
 

I honestly don't get why the Rule of Three answers are uniformly more interesting and informative than the Legends & Lore column. It's weird.

I'm starting to agree with the poster above that maybe the fighter needs to be more than one class. Maybe it's trying to cover too much ground.
 

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Rule-of-Three: 02/21/12)

Good questions. Makes me wonder if they should split the fighter up into different categories (archer, brawler) much like the Wizard has the sorcerer, warlock, etc.

Discuss

Well, I think for one, it was very common for a fighter to be good at fighting at several different feats of arms, not just one.

Look at Robin Hood - while he was a master archer, he was also a very good swordsman and with the quarterstaff.

Or the Samurai - they were expert in the use of swords, bows, pole-arms as well as unarmed fighting.
 

I don't really see a compelling reason to split the fighter into a host of different classes. I can see differentiating it from the rangers and rogues, who use knowledge about their environment as major aspects of combat, but a fighter can easily be built, primarily, as highly skilled in all basic forms of combat, with options to specialize in types of combat, which are best used with - but not exclusive to - certain weapons.

The quickest, dirtiest way to simulate this, at least using 4E concepts, is to give fighters every kind of weapon expertise rider ability for free at level 1.

Ignoring the to-hit feat tax thing, this gives fighters the following abilities when using types of weapons:

Axe: When rolling damage for a weapon attack you make with an axe, you can reroll one damage die that results in a 1, but you must use the second result.

Hammer or Mace: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the number of squares you push or slide creatures with weapon attacks you make with a hammer or a mace.

Bow: You gain a +1/tier bonus to the damage roll of any weapon attack you make with a bow against a single creature that is not adjacent to any other creature.

Crossbow: You ignore partial cover and superior cover with weapon attacks you make with a crossbow.

Flail: When you hit with a melee weapon attack using a flail and the attack lets you slide the target, you can knock the target prone instead of sliding it.

Heavy Blade: While wielding a heavy blade, you gain a +2 bonus to all defenses against opportunity attacks.

Light Blade: You gain a +1/tier bonus to the damage rolls of weapon attacks that you make with a light blade against a creature granting combat advantage to you.

Polearm: While you hold a two-handed polearm in both hands, you gain a +2 bonus to all defenses against charge attacks.

Sling: When you make a ranged or an area attack with a sling, you don’t provoke opportunity attacks for doing so.

Spear: When charging, you gain a +1/tier bonus to damage rolls of weapon attacks that you make with a spear.

Staff: When you make a melee weapon attack with a staff, the weapon’s reach for that attack increases by 1.

Any: You can use a minor action to sheathe a weapon and then draw a weapon.

Put all of that on one character, and you have someone who can use any weapon at any time with a bit of oomph. Other characters can still get just as much oomph, but they have to pay for each weapon they can do so with. The character is suddenly able to switch weapons in combat to match the situation, and can make use of different weapons for different tasks, but no weapon is useless for any task.

A fighter with a two-handed sword can still push, just not as well as with a hammer. A fighter with a bow can still fire point blank, just not as well as with a sling. So on and so forth.

The problem that fighters have faced is that all of their abilities get tied into using one specific weapon. If they lost that weapon, they became a joke until they found it or replaced it. This is true in 4E as much as any other edition, unless you use inherent bonuses. A fighter should never lose half of their abilities and most of their damage because they've had to borrow an axe while they retrieve their sword. Remove this issue, and you can suddenly spend a lot more time giving them ABILITIES that weapons ENHANCE rather than putting all that effort into making weapons into their own builds.
 

Different weapons are like different schools of magic. We need just a class for those. Sub-classes are the answer. Or feat-trees. Or chains of powers. Rules system don't matter, but I like to play a not specialized fighter, and specialized ones.
 

As someone who is generally pretty conservative and traditionalist in taste, I think they need to consider breaking the Fighter up.

They stop making sense as a class when the game has anything but the most abstract combat system and more than like 5 classes.

It wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me at all if they broke it up into say Duellist and Knight.
 

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