D&D 5E (2014) New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

[dave2008]

Out of curiosity, how does the complexity of the monster statblock impact world building for you?

For me, a complex statblock impacts how I might revise it. I don't have a clear, concise, or thought out explanation and I don't really have the desire to reflect on it. I will just say it does. I work better by adding on to than subtracting.

Now, how that does or doesn't impact world building varies. It was @Micah Sweet that mentioned world building, so I would ask them. I was simply responding to there post. I think what they mean is that the statblock informs how they see the world. So if a spellcating monster exists, it should follow the same rules as PCs. That is not really world building to me, but I think that is what Micah was talking about.

 

[NotAYakk]

Also, I may be strange here, but I explicitly do not use PC rules for NPCs, let alone monsters.

PCs advance at too ridiculous a pace and their mechanics don't feel right.

In my mind, PCs are singular creatures. The PC rules are just ways to build such a singular creature that requires less DM work and judgement.

If there is an order of Hexblades, they don't all work the way a PC hexblade does. They all are formed by having a sword stab through their heart as part of the pact ceremony, almost all where raised from birth in a monastery and culled until the right set was picked, etc.

But an NPC "hexblade" that knows different things than a PC hexblade does is perfectly kosher, especially if they are beyond brand new novice hexblades.

I can evoke "an order of paladins" without using the same Paladin mechanics for every NPC or the same ones PCs use. Or the PC can be the only Paladin in existence, that works as well.

 

[dave2008]

I like design and tools that help with the process sim worldbuilding style i enjoy. Level Up does that far better than WotC's 5e, while being enough like it that I can still get 5e players (far more common than any other kind) to my table. That's why its my favorite game.

Hmmm, I don't feel like that answered my question. Do you like monsters and worlds that are designed for you; or do you like to design monsters and worlds?

 

[Micah Sweet]

For me, a complex statblock impacts how I might revise it. I don't have a clear, concise, or thought out explanation and I don't really have the desire to reflect on it. I will just say it does. I work better by adding on to than subtracting.

Now, how that does or doesn't impact world building varies. It was @Micah Sweet that mentioned world building, so I would ask them. I was simply responding to there post. I think what they mean is that the statblock informs how they see the world. So if a spellcating monster exists, it should follow the same rules as PCs. That is not really world building to me, but I think that is what Micah was talking about.

That is what I was talking about.

 

[dave2008]

I find that more detail, not less, is better for me. Its a lot easier to remove something I don't want than to create something I do. If I want something simple, I'll make it that way. But usually I don't.

I'm generally the opposite. I am loath to delete something, so I sometimes end up with stuff I don't like in a more detailed/complex design.

 

[Undrave]

I can evoke "an order of paladins" without using the same Paladin mechanics for every NPC or the same ones PCs use. Or the PC can be the only Paladin in existence, that works as well.

And not every member of an 'Order of Paladin' even needs to BE a Paladin.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hmmm, I don't feel like that answered my question. Do you like monsters and worlds that are designed for you; or do you like to design monsters and worlds?

Both. I use a lot of material from 3pp and WotC, modified to work together. I make adjustments to statblocks as needed, but prefer to have something with a lot of detail to work with as a base. I like rules that enforce verisimilitude, and use them to build my own worlds. I have a campaign setting I've been working on for several years and run two campaigns in, built from my own ideas and pieces of lore and crunch from dozens of sources.

I also grew up on the settings of 2e, which purchased primarily as reading material (gaming tables were a little thin on the ground at the time). I loved those stories, and somewhat resent straight up changes to those settings that can't be explained in-universe, hence my dislike for 5e Ravenloft. I am trying to come around to just jettisoning WotC at this point, as being relentlessly negative about them is good for no one, myself included.

I love Level Up though, and most of my gaming energies are going that way.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm generally the opposite. I am loath to delete something, so I sometimes end up with stuff I don't like in a more detailed/complex design.

I'm curious(not a trap or to be argumentative) about why you are loathe to delete things. I've known people who hate to get rid of things, because they might need it later as an option. My wife is like this. When we moved into our new house it had a built in microwave, but my wife still wanted to save our old one "just in case." She did this despite both of us knowing that if the built in microwave breaks, we will want to replace it rather than try to find counter space for the old, large microwave in the garage. I finally convinced her earlier this week(two years later) to let me throw it out.

What's your reason?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

See, I don't want an NPC that conceptually represents a PC equivalent to deviate from that PC model any more than is necessary. Every spellcasting monster in post-divide 5e now does that. We all have our lines, and they've crossed mine.

This additive/subtractive discussion has some interest to me. I prefer clarity (I'm kind of obsessed with it) so anything that "clutters" a stat-block I would prefer to see excised. (As I've mentioned before, I'm not one who expects to get what I want).

I don't see clarity as something that gets in the way of world-building, but something that adds to it. I have a solid interest in design as well, and I think that the clarity-to-complexity ratio can actually (and easily) be increased on both axes (if that makes sense) than what we currently have.

(I think there's room for more complexity after clarity is achieved).

 

[Reynard]

For me, a complex statblock impacts how I might revise it. I don't have a clear, concise, or thought out explanation and I don't really have the desire to reflect on it. I will just say it does. I work better by adding on to than subtracting.

Now, how that does or doesn't impact world building varies. It was @Micah Sweet that mentioned world building, so I would ask them. I was simply responding to there post. I think what they mean is that the statblock informs how they see the world. So if a spellcating monster exists, it should follow the same rules as PCs. That is not really world building to me, but I think that is what Micah was talking about.

In your statement that I quoted, you specifically said that simpler stat blocks made world building easier for you, so I was curious why that was.

I like to design and world, and I find that is easier to do with simple monster stat blocks and limited lore. Less to get in the way of my designs and world building.

I certainly understand the lore part, but I am failing to see how complexity fits in.