New Staff Blog: Run Away!

I mean specifically in comparison to real life tactics, which is the context I was responding to. Specifically, heavy focus fire in a game is bad not because the players are doing it, but rather that they need little thought or risk to gain its advantages. Typically, the means put into game models (including all versions of D&D), are insufficient to that purpose and/or not what people think they are.

For example, area attacks are not a general purpose focus-fire stopper. What they do, when reasonably present and/or powerful enough to be a deterrent, is serve as an anti-massing of people technique. Anti-massing is only stopping focus fire when your focus fire is mostly melee attacks.

As another example, there is NO plausible situation, looking at the reality of what is being simulated in game, where say, 3 low/mid-level, melee fighter types against three roughly equal orcs, would have the three fighters concentrate on one orc or vice versa. Yet the mechanics heavily bias people towards doing so. I'll fully grant that D&D makes this a desired approach is mostly because of the nature of hit points and thus difficult to work around--and even has some advantages in making combat go a bit faster. But nonetheless, it is present, and not particularly "tactical" but rote formula. That the rogue and wizard can sit back and shoot stuff in the pile when the three fighters take on five orcs just makes it that much worse, while clouding the issue a bit.

Opportunity attacks do help a bit, especially when both sides use the threat of them intelligently to restrict movement. Making is nifty in its niche, too.

Whatever works or doesn't work in this regard, invoking "morale rules" as way to help is like invoking Tuesday night bowling to help with teen pregnancy. There may be some tenuous links between the two, and even ways to twist the one to affect the other, but no doubt there are better avenues to explore. ;)
 

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Well since, overnight, the discussion has been mostly de-railed onto focused fire, I have only one comment:
"My monsters have often been little more than bags of hit points waiting to cough up XP with their final, rattling breath."
Love this line, I'm going to chortle all day about it :)
 

Dammit! It was, wasn't it...?!?:rant:

Just after I recently challenged anyone to show examples of 4E bashing in WotC's statements, and none were able to do so because there just hasn't been any...Evil_Reverend comes along and serves up a big old steaming meatball of bashing!!!

Stupid!

That post really smacked of the same tone as the releases leading up to 4E. Evil_Reverend is walking a very dangerous line, one that can do no good service for 5E. Just phenomonally Stupid!

They need to be very, very, very careful...and Evil_Reverend needs to seriously dial it back.

:erm:

Dude. It was *one sentence* that (particularly if you think focusing fire has always been part of the game) is neutral at worst. And given that the thrust of the article was "isn't a shame they removed morale when they designed 3e" it is -- if anything -- an anti-3e article.
 

What real life scenarios would focus fire of damage NOT be ideal, which D&D is missing, exactly? Keep in mind that this is different from focus fire of status effects.
 

At any rate, yes. Morale rules are good. Even if the GM never makes a roll, there is rich information in reading that kobolds have an 18 morale and thus tend to fight to the end while goblins have a 12 and are thus cowardly little buggers who will scarper when things look bad.

In 5 pages, haven't found as good a post as this one. Thanks.
 

I mean specifically in comparison to real life tactics, which is the context I was responding to. Specifically, heavy focus fire in a game is bad not because the players are doing it, but rather
<snippage>
That the rogue and wizard can sit back and shoot stuff in the pile when the three fighters take on five orcs just makes it that much worse, while clouding the issue a bit.

Opportunity attacks do help a bit, especially when both sides use the threat of them intelligently to restrict movement. Making is nifty in its niche, too.

Okay. No problem. I'll take it there's a common contention that 4e exacerbates this more than previous editions. I never noticed it myself, but that wouldn't be the first problem people on the internet have that I never saw.:lol:

Whatever works or doesn't work in this regard, invoking "morale rules" as way to help is like invoking Tuesday night bowling to help with teen pregnancy. There may be some tenuous links between the two, and even ways to twist the one to affect the other, but no doubt there are better avenues to explore. ;)

Total agreement there. I found that idea baffling.
 

What real life scenarios would focus fire of damage NOT be ideal, which D&D is missing, exactly? Keep in mind that this is different from focus fire of status effects.

I think its mostly a matter of opportunity rather than impact. That is, you may want to focus fire, but real-life battle doesn't provide as much opportunity as D&D does. For example, 2 or 3 fighters all attacking the same orc out of a rank of orcs. IRL, this would be very difficult to accomplish. IMO, D&D has constantly underestimated/undervalued facing and being outnumbered. Of course, that's to make the fights more heroic and "cinematic", so its not that big a deal.
 

I think its mostly a matter of opportunity rather than impact. That is, you may want to focus fire, but real-life battle doesn't provide as much opportunity as D&D does. For example, 2 or 3 fighters all attacking the same orc out of a rank of orcs. IRL, this would be very difficult to accomplish. IMO, D&D has constantly underestimated/undervalued facing and being outnumbered. Of course, that's to make the fights more heroic and "cinematic", so its not that big a deal.

There's certainly room for facing rules and a "death spiral via overwhelming numbers" rule. As well as rules like shooting your own friend when firing globs of acid through their space. It just doesn't seem to be a bug so much as a feature at default.
 

At any rate, yes. Morale rules are good. Even if the GM never makes a roll, there is rich information in reading that kobolds have an 18 morale and thus tend to fight to the end while goblins have a 12 and are thus cowardly little buggers who will scarper when things look bad.

Good point, but I would rather have that described in details, in fluff :)
 

I'm all in favor of there being some form of guidelines for morale failure for monsters and npcs.

I like to think of the monsters I use as being alive and having feelings as well as the intelligence to know when things are getting out of hand. I have no problem with them running away or surrendering.

Having rules designed for the game means I don't have to use old rules or invent my own.

I'm sure there are those who will ignore any such rules as being superfluous, but I for one, will make good use of them.
 

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