New System Deal Breakers

[Pentius]

Caveat: I'll try anything once.

1. No Core Mechanic. Just makes everything seem disjointed, and there's more to remember, because effectively you end up with a bunch of subsystems.

2. Limited Archetype Support. Like if a game has a class system, and only the most basic classes. As much as I'm a fan of reflavoring things to my taste(and I really, really am), I do want the system to meet me halfway.

3. Too Much Imbalance. This one is hard to pin down, but basically, I want to be able to hunt down interesting combos and tricks, to build the most 'balla' character I can, without worrying that if I sit down at the table with it, I'm going to wreck the other players' fun.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Here are a couple:
1) Advantages/Disadvantages systems

This is my biggest deal breaker - the pinnacle of min/maxism. Create a character who is awesome at one thing, but is so severely handicapped in gameplay that no one wants to roleplay with him (or you as a player). Your character almost always ends up being an insane, deformed jerk. (I'm looking at Hackmaster, GURPS, Savage Worlds, and I'm sure several more.)

I say blame the GM.
a. if something is not going to come up enough to be a hindrance or it is going to be disruptive, they should tell the player, "No"
b. If they allow it, the GM should be hitting the character with the disadvantage.

Some games actually ask the GM to get involved, and tell the player that the fate of the world is not going to depend on how well he can do some obscure dance very often. At the other end of the spectrum, the same game mentions not letting players take disadvantages that essentially cripple them.

And all of them have rules about not doing Ads/Disads that cancel each other out. Zhaleskra the character has advantages that would seem to do this, but they don't: Easy to Heal means that 3 overlapping healing spells (healing spells that don't stack) will work on zir in a day rather than just the best one; Fragile Bones means that a botched defense will often result in broken bones, and bone mending spells are harder to cast than wound healing spells.

From above, the same game has a guideline about not being allowed to take related but similar experience advantages (kind of like class training, but not exactly): you can't take both Knight Training and Mage Knight Training or Guard Warrior Experience and Guard Mage Experience.

Not exactly a deal breaker, but I'm starting to dislike Charisma/Personality as a stat. Yet I can stand Presence or the like, because that's how "noticeable" you are.

 

[MarkB]

One thing that's a big bugbear for me:

Lack of player control in character creation and advancement. Aside from pre-gens for one-off or short-term games, when I make a character I want to be able to define that character in both fluff and crunch terms. The more control is taken from me, the farther outside my comfort zone I am.

So, for instance:
I loathe Warhammer FRP's utterly random character building and rigid advancement paths.
I find the guided randomness of Traveller's career system intriguing but also frustrating.
I consider the collaborative character-building of The Dresden Files an ingenious system, but a somewhat uncomfortable one.
I am most comfortable with the entirely player-guided character building systems of d20 games, but even there, I strongly favour variants which use point-buy abilities and fixed hit point progression rather than random rolls.

 

[garrowolf]

I can't stand progressive dice types like Earthdawn. I don't like huge dice pools like Shadowrun. I love both settings though. I don't like roll under dice codes like Gurps.

I can't stand large hit point systems like Rifts.

I really hate percentile systems like Rifts.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Bell curve probability roll under or over ala Inomine, I hate how it makes small penelaties/bonuses act weird, I like linear progression.

Roll under - high=good thats how it is.

Overly specific skil systems.

 

[frankthedm]

1) Advantages/Disadvantages systems

Agree!

Roll once to hit. Roll once to damage. Why in the name of the Seven Hells should we have to keep rolling to ignore the hits? Why drag on combats? If you want for a monster to be hard to damage, make it harder to hit and not worry about blocks, parries, shields, dodges, or the winds of fate.

One target number = hit means either hits will be obviously rare, or hits are too regular leading to the game assuming you will get damaged regularly, like D&D, requiring regular healing as well. With at least two target numbers to ensure a hit, that lets hits be less frequent an occurrence, but leaves frequent hits still being a potential danger. Also this allows individual attacks be more dangerous in and of themselves.

"Why" for my group is that at least two players want an ACTIVE role [ & roll ] in their defense.

But a system alowing for more than one defense roll per attack is going to bog things down badly.

 

[SSquirrel]

When the new version of a system I have played before changes nearly everything about the game, and most of the changes don't appear to have added anything beneficial. New World of Darkness, I'm looking at you. Changing the name of one aspect of a character to a different name is alright if you must, but don't then use that old term to describe something DIFFERENT!

Given Greg K's laundry list, I'm curious on his thoughts on Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved.

 

[steeldragons]

I don't have many "deal breakers", per se. But a couple of things that make me think "no thanks, I don't have to play that" are:

1) "Unlimited" (for lack of a better word) multi-classing. Yes, I'll wear my "grognard" tee with pride, but when I see characters who are things like, "I'm a Barbarian/druid/thief who took a level in sorcerer" I think, "So what ARE you?" How do you develop flavor for a character who is...well...everything? What's the point of playing, or at least playing with other people, if the only thing the party needs is this your one character? No thanks.

2) "Cuz the book says so" games/worlds. This is really just a playing style preference for me, I suppose. And before the flames begin to rise, let's all keep in mind there is no "right" way to play. Of course I like some plot (won't be much of a game/story if there isn't some) but really prefer a sandbox. I love "rules lite" and don't like rules lawyering/looking things up to the point the rules interfere with the immersion/storytelling. So if that's the level of "crunch" (or "system expertise") a game needs to be played? No thanks.

Think that's all off the top of my head at the moment...there's probably more.

But whatever breaks your deals, have fun and happy gaming.
--SD

 

[Dragonblade]

My core deal breakers:

1) Randomness in character generation - No element of my PC should ever be random. EVER. No random stats, no random HP, no random lifepath table, etc. I want complete control over every aspect of my PC.

2) No disadvantages/flaws system. I shouldn't have to load up on weird or character crippling flaws to make the PC I want.

3) No death spiral. I don't like games with death spiral mechanics where once you start taking damage you start getting more and more penalized.

4) Anything that prides itself on being "gritty". I want to play a big damn hero! I want to be capable and badass at level 1. I also dislike games that are supposedly big on cinematic action and fight scenes but then your character takes weeks to heal from their injuries. Cinematic combat systems require cinematic recovery models to go with it.

Other annoyances but not necessarily deal breakers:

Self-contained monster/NPC stat blocks. Everything I need to know to run a monster or NPC should be in the stat block. I don't want to open a book to look up a power or spell, or whatever.

15 minute adventuring day and "daily" abilities. I hate resources that are "per day" especially if they are your PC's main source of power/coolness. 90% of a PC's abilities should be renewable more often than 1/day.

 

[Ahnehnois]

*X/[unit of time] abilities. Anything that's "per day" is bad. Anything that's metagame ("per session") is worse. Don't even get me started on time 'units' that don't mean anything ("per encounter").

*Lack of mechanical flaws (i.e. systems that term everything as bonuses and abilities and nothing as penalties or drawbacks). Characters without flaws aren't characters.

*Different mechanics for PCs and NPCs.

---

Obviously D&D gets some exceptions, but I have busily tried to write all the above out of my game as necessary.