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New to DB, and D&D Minis idea...

deskchicken

First Post
Hey there,
Just got my POD copy of DB in the mail yesterday... great stuff! I'm eager to get some friends together to try it out. I remember thinking a couple years back how cool it would be if somebody came up with some d20 rules for miniatures-based dungeon crawls. And you did!

I've recently gotten into D&D minis, and am currently trying to figure out how best to use that system, the 3.5 ed rules for character generation, and Dungeon Bash to create a quicker-playing dungeon crawl campaign. Anybody tried this?
 

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telengard_t

First Post
deskchicken said:
Hey there,
Just got my POD copy of DB in the mail yesterday... great stuff! I'm eager to get some friends together to try it out. I remember thinking a couple years back how cool it would be if somebody came up with some d20 rules for miniatures-based dungeon crawls. And you did!

I've recently gotten into D&D minis, and am currently trying to figure out how best to use that system, the 3.5 ed rules for character generation, and Dungeon Bash to create a quicker-playing dungeon crawl campaign. Anybody tried this?

Hi there,

I've been trying to merge the 2 using some of the stuff in the Miniatures Handbook. Rather than rolling for encounters I'm fiddling with just having a deck of encounters using the DDM stat cards. Converting is kinda tough since I'm trying to use the skirmish stats. My *ideal* version of Dungeon Bash would utilize the DDM skirmish stuff but that may be too limiting for some folks.

~telengard
 

Flyspeck23

First Post
deskchicken said:
Just got my POD copy of DB in the mail yesterday... great stuff! I'm eager to get some friends together to try it out. I remember thinking a couple years back how cool it would be if somebody came up with some d20 rules for miniatures-based dungeon crawls. And you did!
Funny story: a day or two after DB was first announced, a game designer contacted me and told me that he was working on pretty much the same game. And the name he came up with was... Dungeon Bash.

Guess somebody had to do it sooner or later :)

Anyway, glad you like the game! Hope you'll be spared from TPK :cool:


deskchicken said:
I've recently gotten into D&D minis, and am currently trying to figure out how best to use that system, the 3.5 ed rules for character generation, and Dungeon Bash to create a quicker-playing dungeon crawl campaign. Anybody tried this?
While I haven't tried it, I see no reason why the DB system shouldn't work with other rule sets too.

With DDM the only problem I see is treasure, character progress and EL. For the latter, you'd have to design a point-based system of some sort. I guess the other stuff would be more work

Btw, if you come up with any d20-based house rules for DB, just send them my way and I'll post them on the DB site. For anything else (like DDM-DB) it'd be best if you upload it to BGG.


telengard_t said:
I've been trying to merge the 2 using some of the stuff in the Miniatures Handbook. Rather than rolling for encounters I'm fiddling with just having a deck of encounters using the DDM stat cards. Converting is kinda tough since I'm trying to use the skirmish stats. My *ideal* version of Dungeon Bash would utilize the DDM skirmish stuff but that may be too limiting for some folks.
FYI: after the second expansion is out (both of which will be published this year - I hope ;) ) I'll work on "DB Lite". Most likely it won't be d20 anymore, but a heavily modified OGL system.

Btw, Encounter Cards for DB (blank versions too) are coming, which should make your job easier.
 

deskchicken

First Post
telengard_t said:
Hi there,

I've been trying to merge the 2 using some of the stuff in the Miniatures Handbook. Rather than rolling for encounters I'm fiddling with just having a deck of encounters using the DDM stat cards. Converting is kinda tough since I'm trying to use the skirmish stats. My *ideal* version of Dungeon Bash would utilize the DDM skirmish stuff but that may be too limiting for some folks.

~telengard

Actually I think we're on the same page- DDM is a really streamlined version of 3rd ed, which I think would lend itself really well to a DB-style game. I'm also kicking around with ideas for generating encounters entirely from the cards. If you want to swap ideas, let me know.

I'm currently assembling a magnetized dungeon tile set to use with my minis and some version of DB, but now and then I return to thinking about encounter generation, and also a system for 'leveling up' the characters from the DDM cards. I think it would be sweet to create characters from the 3rd ed PBH, but use DDM as the combat system, and the DDM side of the monster cards... that way, the players get more granularity with their PCs, and the DM gets a simpler ruleset and stats to worry about. In practice, I've found a lot of the feats and skills wouldn't translate well, or at all, but the idea could still go somewhere I think...
 

deskchicken

First Post
Flyspeck23 said:
FYI: after the second expansion is out (both of which will be published this year - I hope ;) ) I'll work on "DB Lite". Most likely it won't be d20 anymore, but a heavily modified OGL system.

Btw, Encounter Cards for DB (blank versions too) are coming, which should make your job easier.


Cool on both accounts :)
 

Flyspeck23

First Post
deskchicken said:
I'm currently assembling a magnetized dungeon tile set to use with my minis and some version of DB, but now and then I return to thinking about encounter generation, and also a system for 'leveling up' the characters from the DDM cards. I think it would be sweet to create characters from the 3rd ed PBH, but use DDM as the combat system, and the DDM side of the monster cards... that way, the players get more granularity with their PCs, and the DM gets a simpler ruleset and stats to worry about. In practice, I've found a lot of the feats and skills wouldn't translate well, or at all, but the idea could still go somewhere I think...
If you think that some feats/skills can't be converted, simply forbid them. It's a simplified game anyway, so why not limit the choices?
 

deskchicken

First Post
Flyspeck23 said:
If you think that some feats/skills can't be converted, simply forbid them. It's a simplified game anyway, so why not limit the choices?

Yup, that's the likliest idea - or a reworking of existing feats, as well as some of the more 'common' DDM special abilities into a feat list specific to this mashup. Of course, you'd now got me curious about this DB Lite of yours =)
 

telengard_t

First Post
deskchicken said:
Actually I think we're on the same page- DDM is a really streamlined version of 3rd ed, which I think would lend itself really well to a DB-style game. I'm also kicking around with ideas for generating encounters entirely from the cards. If you want to swap ideas, let me know.

I'm currently assembling a magnetized dungeon tile set to use with my minis and some version of DB, but now and then I return to thinking about encounter generation, and also a system for 'leveling up' the characters from the DDM cards. I think it would be sweet to create characters from the 3rd ed PBH, but use DDM as the combat system, and the DDM side of the monster cards... that way, the players get more granularity with their PCs, and the DM gets a simpler ruleset and stats to worry about. In practice, I've found a lot of the feats and skills wouldn't translate well, or at all, but the idea could still go somewhere I think...

Yep it sounds like we are both trying to do sorta the same thing. I agree it would be great to create your own characters but I have no idea how to translate things from the PHB to DDM and have it work out OK. Also, I'm using the skirmish side of the cards (just easier) so certain types of DC checks etc I guess I will just do against their level just like in DDM. Using the skirmish rules makes for a faster game (as you stated too), and given the amount of free time I have for gaming that's a good thing! :)

Magnetic dungeons, cool. Is this sorta like Nin Gonost (sp?). Those seemed amazing. I just use the WoTC dungeon tiles and some custom printed ones. Would love to try out Chunky Dungeons from WWG though. I haven't figured out yet how to generate encounters from the cards and have them be more than just drawing cards off the top (i.e. lord and minions, or other combos). Maybe I'm just overthinking this stuff. I'm still in the initial stages.

~telengard
 

Flyspeck23

First Post
telengard_t said:
I haven't figured out yet how to generate encounters from the cards and have them be more than just drawing cards off the top (i.e. lord and minions, or other combos). Maybe I'm just overthinking this stuff. I'm still in the initial stages.

I'd still use the encounter tables (lacking the DB Encounter Cards) and just use the DDM cards for reference. Otherwise your encounters would generally be too easy (party vs one opponent if you draw just one card) or too tough (if you draw more than one card).

Another solution, using nothing but cards: make one "main" encounter deck, featuring opponents of different CR/point values. If you draw a weak opponent during play, you would draw additional cards from the sub-decks with nothing but weak opponents.
 

deskchicken

First Post
telengard_t said:
I haven't figured out yet how to generate encounters from the cards and have them be more than just drawing cards off the top (i.e. lord and minions, or other combos). Maybe I'm just overthinking this stuff. I'm still in the initial stages.

Yeah, I've tried to think of different systems for this... Flyspeck23 is probably right- tables are the best way to go for maximum control and configurability of encounters. I'm inclined to try doing it entirely with the DDM cards, since the cards are going to be there on the table anyway, and are just so handy for keeping track of stats, so why not use them for encounter generation too? Might have to give up a little on the notion of having very "realistic" encounter groups though. I personally don't mind weird and wacky monster combos though- it keeps things from getting too predictable for the PCs, and can make things sort of challenging for the DM ("Hmmm, an Ogre Mage with a pet Giant Toad- interesting....")

One simple system I've been thinking of, which is sort of based on a card encounter system my group used to use with Advanced Heroquest, is this:

Determine a "minimum point value" for encounters, based on the party's average level (or maybe total level)... The exact formula would take playtesting, but for argument's sake, let's say four characters of level 3 would require a minimum encounter point value of 36 (I'm just using total levels x 3 in this example). You could fiddle with that number of course, if you wanted to present scenarios with varying difficulty levels (cakewalks vs suicide missions), but using total party level (or average party level) to start makes sense.

Prior to the game, the DM assembles a deck of cards from his CE and LE decks, ensuring that no single creature exceeds value of 36 (the minimum encounter value). This is her opportunity to decide what sorts of critters are going to be in the dungeon. Additionally, the DM can pre-fab the Quest Room "core" encounter group, using this same number as a point value limit. This mini deck gets put off to the side.

Roll for encounters normally during the game. When one occurs, keep drawing cards off the top until the total point value equals or exceeds the minimum encounter point value (in this case, 36). In practice, that could mean encounters of point value 36-71.

When the Quest Room is found, generate a random encounter normally, and then add the Quest Room core encounter group to that, effectively generating a double-sized, partially pre-built final encounter. This could be fun for the DM, as he gets to determine who the big villain(s) are, but still doesn't know exactly what else might be participating in the final fight.

There's a whole bunch of variation / tweaking you could do to this idea. Like, perhaps you'd actually create a number of pre-built, core encounter groups, instead of just one for the Quest Room, and use those as the basis for any room encounter. Or, pre-build all the encounters, and stack the mini-decks on top of one another into the main deck, and draw one encounter group at a time, instead of one creature at a time. That might work well.

I have another idea that's fairly different from this, but don't want to spam everybody =) Flyspeck, would this thread be bettrer off elsewhere? I know it's not directly related to the DB rules. If anybody would like to toss ideas around regarding a DB / DDM mashup, feel free to contact me : mike . mcgraw (at) gmail
 
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