New Twist of standard religion

Azzy42xy

First Post
I am Dming new game and always been fond of clerics.
SO I am wanting to put completely new spin on the way the players view religion and the way the Gods interact with each other and maybe put a more powerful role to clerics in general.
I have a few ideas of my own but I wanted some other opinions that I might incorperate into my game or just see different takes on this subject.

:lol:
 

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D&D does a crappy job of portraying religion's actual role in society and in how characters live. I therefore cannot recommend highly enough the still durable (though 25 years old) Runequest take on religion. Cults of Terror, Cults of Prax -- these books could provide you with a lot of inspiration and good ideas. (Not to mention the cool trinity of severed head gods and all kinds of other amazing deities with vivid original powers.)
 
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One simple way to make religions in your campaign feel more realistic is to remove the certainty which knowing the gods are real beings who live on the Outer Planes affords the characters.

Eberron has some pretty good ideas along these lines.
 

I recently read Steven Erikson's Malazan books, and they handle the gods in a really cool way. The Pantheon is always jockeying for power, and any direct interaction with mortal affairs makes a god more vulnerable to getting taken out. there are also some people/creatures who have achieved immortality through power, but not quite godhood. Not sure how I'd take this into D&D, though.
 

I'm gonna have to agree with mhacdebhandia. The best way to handle religion is to get rid of the gods.

The various fantasy rpgs, novels, and video games I've seen all have an interconnected pantheon, in that the followers of each god belive in the other gods as well. That reflects poorly the medieval era that fantasy draws much of it's flavor from.

Set up three or four seperate belief systems, then decide how they interact. Below is an off-the-top-of-my-head example:

In the beginning, the three chaoses spawned the titan Imeros. But his children, the seven high-gods, rose up and killed him, creating the world from his bones, and it's creatures from his flesh. They and their children, the ninty-nine lesser gods, each have power over some aspect of reality. A god can grant its followers some small segment of its power, thereby creating clerics and paladins. But there is also power in the titan Imeros and the three chaoses. Rangers and Druids listen to the voice of Imeros, and gain power from his wisdom. Others impose order upon chaos through various means. Some do it with rituals and diagrams, becoming wizards. Some do it with music, becoming bards. And some, the mysterious sorcerors, do it with will alone.

In the beginning, there was vast emptiness. Then, a light came into being. A light known as Luminus. Luminus shaped the world and everything within. To his chosen, he granted great powers: his pious warriors became paladins, his mortal servants became clerics, and a blessed few were favored at birth with the powers of a sorcerer. But where there is light, there are shadows. Nocture, the enemy of Luminus seeks ever to destroy all of creation. And in his attempt to do so, he has created vile corruptions of Luminus' chosen. Wizards seek to do with twisted speech and vile geometry what sorcerers do by nature of their birth. Bards gain powers through revelry and debauchery that paladins gain through prayer and meditation. And his devoted slaves have been granted their own clerical powers. Between Light and darkness is the realm of nature. Nature has magic of its own, and Rangers and Druids can access that magic, for good or ill.

In the beginning, there were countless spirits. And the spirits clothed themselves in forms, becoming the rocks, the trees, the rivers, the winds, the birds, the beasts, and even the people of the world. And those spirits continue to thrive. Rangers and Druids speak to the various spirits, and so gain their powers. Clerics and Paladins have entered into a relationship with a specific powerful spirit. Wizards deal with the spirits of Aether, Bards with the spirits of music, and Sorcerors with spirits within themselves.

In the beginning, there was man. He needs no gods or spirits to rule or keep the world in operation, for power lies always within. Belief is a power from within. Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers all derive their abilities from belief. Wizards, on the other hand, gain power through knowledge, Bards gain power through imagination, and Sorcerers Gain power through Will alone.

As set up, the classes always derive there magical powers and abilities the same way, but the interpretation is different. For example, rangers and druids all gain their their powers from mystic whisperings of nature, but some believe those are whisperings of Imeros, others that they are echoes of Luminus or Nocturne. Still others believe that the whispers are the voices of spirits, and finally, some believe that the whispers are a manifestation of our subconcious.

How do these guys get along?
The Polytheists get along well with the Spiritualists. Essentially, they believe that the so called spirits are simply the gods and their servants by different names. They don't have a lot of respect for the Atheists, but leave it to the gods to correct their irreverence and hubris. They actively war against the Monotheists, for clearly they pay reverence to a false god who seeks to topple the true pantheon.

The Monotheists don't much like the Polytheists and the Spiritualists. Clearly, these false gods and spirits are ruses perpetrated by Nocturne and his devilish minions. They're more lenient with the Atheists, however. For while the Atheists refuse worship to Luminus, they refuse service to Nocturne, too.

The Spiritualists get along well with the Polytheists, whom they consider odd for paying homage only to the more prominent spirits. They would likewise behave towards the Monotheists, except that the Monotheists have no intention of cooperation. They also don't deal well with the Atheists, who pay no respect to the spirits, and should be taught a stern lesson.

The Atheists find all of the others to be silly and superstitious, but don't try to make an issue out of religious differences. Unfortunatly, the Spiritualists DO make an issue out of religious differences, which has some unfortunate (and somewhat bloody) consequences. They get along better with the Monotheists (and to a lesser extend, the Polytheists)
 

If you don't want to get rid of the knowledge of the gods existing but still want more religions then you can get rid of the knowledge that any one cleric's interpretation is right. I have taken alignment away from my gods, so that a cleric of any alignment can worship a particular god. And provided both of them further the gods 'ideals', they are both going to get their powers. Lymos is the god of light, war and prejudice. On one part of the continent there are two countries both of whom worship Lymos, and they've been at war on and off for centuries. They each have their own religion which both praise light and the sun, both expound on the glory of war, and both are heavily prejudiced against the 'false' religion that the other church is preaching. It maps quite nicely to the history of religious conflict in the real world, particularly when you consider that the being worshipped by juddaism, christianity and islam is supposed to be 'the same' entity on the most basic of levels. Ultimately what we disagree on is how to interpret the teachings that we have apparently received from that entity*. My world just takes it the step further of having both the religions being 'right', provided they are in line with the basic spheres that the particular god represents. Other gods also have multiple religions, some in conflict with each other, others more amenable to the differences. It does take more work to make the different religions, but it also allows my players a bit more freedom to come up with their own religion if they want to play a cleric/paladin with a particular feel to it.

*Trying to make my comments on religion as neutral and in-offensive as possible.
 

To clarify, in the campaign I was lazily designing (and may never return to, though I'll probably use this idea if I do end up running something), I simply declared by fiat that there was no way to know the truth about the nature or even existence (as real entities or forces) of the gods.

Divination spells would simply fail if used to ask such questions. Celestials or fiends would be unable or unwilling to answer under any circumstances - or perhaps even to admit that they didn't know themselves. Clerics of the same deity with very different ideas about what is "right" in that deity's service would have no genuine basis for their arguments - and complicating the issue would be clerics and other divine casters who don't worship deities.

When two clerics of the World Mother from different congregations disagree about the proper way to honour her, and the druid down the road who offers her reverence as an embodiment of the force of Nature can't agree with his druid colleague from another sect who prefers to strip away such "unnatural" anthropomorphisations and simply serve Nature directly, what do you do with the cleric who simply reveres the natural world? To say nothing of shugenja, spirit shamans, favoured souls . . . when you think about the enormous numbers of sects and theories within historical religions even long before the modern era, this kind of complexity in the campaign setting can give you a lot to work with to replicate that.

These groups don't have to be very formal or have many groups. I don't think of either base classes or prestige classes as being particularly noticeable within the gameworld - class features can be noticed, of course, but knowing that a warrior who focuses on the pure art of combat can be more dangerous with his sword (fighter with Weapon Specialisation and so forth) than a warrior granted holy powers and charged with a sacred mission (a paladin) doesn't mean that you'll ascribe that difference to anything other than the former having more time and energy to devote to his swordplay, which the latter spends in devotion to his deity.

That sort of thing can apply everywhere. You could have an entire sect of religious ascetics numbering less than a dozen people, isolated in an obscure monastery, who are the only people in the campaign with a certain prestige class because they're the only ones who believe and practice as they do. Whatever.
 

Another direction to go in could be the whole "Sun King", "God King", etc, thing - the "gods" aren't really gods at all, but rather the various monarchs and such who rule by "divine right". Court viziers and/or perhaps the monarchs themselves have ways of empowering agents of the divine, such as clerics and paladins.

Perhaps this is secretly based on power crystals, or geographical posession of ley lines, or some similar thing - and this is the basis for many conflicts that arise between the kings and queens....
 

Brilliant ideas!!! I will be sure to use a combination of your idea's to keep the players guessing at all times. I was also thought of possibly making the religious pratices in certain circles very strict to please the Gods ( who may or may not exist). Such as ritual blood letting or the active search for non believers and trying to convert them or slay them. I wasn't sure if this would be wise or not. Any thoughts?
 

Strict taboos for the faithful are a great roleplaying hook - if carefully designed. You don't want players who resent being harassed by evangelical religious folk in real life to start feeling the same way about the NPC cleric in their home town - or the PC cleric in the party.

On the other hand, ceremonies and rituals are a good way to get a little bit of flavour into your portrayal of religious characters - whether clerics or simply believing fighters and rogues.
 

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