D&D (2024) New UA one D&D play test document Dec 1st.

[Pauln6]

No. The gm need not bump the DC to encounter the 3.5 problems that bounded accuracy was intended to fix. Stock RAW PHB DMG only is enough. Back then you had a situation where some classes vrs some challenges (ie full 1/1 BaB ones & monster ACs became impossible to hit for others (ie fractional BaB ones) if the first set had so much as a chance of missing... The second part of that was in addition if the second group was simply capable of hitting the AC/DC/etc the first group was almost incapable of failure.


5e is designed with all of the DCs set for no expertise & generally for lower level players with lower proficiency bonuses. A character with expertise blows past bounded accuracy both by advancing in levels beyond the narrow band bounded accuracy and by adding double the bonus that is already certain to exceed the math's expectations before getting doubled.

.. Bounded accuracy means that things like expertise and static DCs not linked to levels *can't" exist or that players can't level and all DCs assume expertise

I have had one player take expertise in perception so they have +14 at 15th level, which then becomes +15 to +19 with Guidance, usually rolled with advantage.

Reigning in expertise to half proficiency would bring that down to +11 and making Guidance grant advantage doesn't stack with the racial advantage, so bounded accuracy is back in the room.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have had one player take expertise in perception so they have +14 at 15th level, which then becomes +15 to +19 with Guidance, usually rolled with advantage.

Reigning in expertise to half proficiency would bring that down to +11 and making Guidance grant advantage doesn't stack with the racial advantage, so bounded accuracy is back in the room.

Making expertise raise the floor& average on the d20 by changing 1d20 to 3d6 would make a huge difference in feel without raising the cap at all.

I don't remember what they did for it but I've seen a cleric & wizard both get expertise in perception & investigate respectively, they straight up had d20+17 before guidance or "and I help, that gives you advantage" advantage.

edit: Yes those two were in the same group same game

 

[Pauln6]

Making expertise raise the floor& average on the d20 by changing 1d20 to 3d6 would make a huge difference in feel without raising the cap at all.

I don't remember what they did for it but I've seen a cleric & wizard both get expertise in perception & investigate respectively, they straight up had d20+17 before guidance or "and I help, that gives you advantage" advantage.

edit: Yes those two were in the same group same game

One other option is that expertise replaces your ability score bonus rather than stacking so it's more useful in abilities where you don't have a high stat.

 

[Maxperson]

I have always thought that the Cleric was the best-designed class in 5e, since there was such a diversity of builds available (STR, DEX, WIS, CHA can all be primary stats and the class remains viable), and each subclass really felt different to play.

I am really hoping changes to the Cleric will not be substantial. (Plus, how many subclasses will we get? If it's just one (light/life, I'd guess) it will be hard to get a clear sense of what the class holds.

One D&D strikes again!

 

[Maxperson]

To blanketly ban talking about gods when talking about religion is just as dismissive the other way.

Right. The cleric should absolutely talk about gods, and also have a portion talking about being able to be clerics of a philosophy or ideal like prior editions did. Then let the group figure out which it's going to be.

 

[Maxperson]

On the subject of the cleric:

• I like the "Holy Order" mechanic--basically, the decision to be a "weapons cleric" or a "magic cleric" is no longer dependent on domains, it's a separate choice made at 2nd level. However, the scholar option feels incredibly underwhelming compared to the other two. Even allowing for the fact that it's much easier to get heavy armor training now, I can't imagine picking a few knowledge skill bonuses over a) heavy armor or b) rapid Channel Divinity recharge.

I can. There are a lot of us who don't base every decision around combat. I would use the clerical expertise option for some of my characters to be sure..........if I played enough to be able to use my ideas.

 

[Maxperson]

Divine Intervention still sucks. Nothing is worse than doing just nothing on your turn.

It's too strong for success to be guaranteed, and it's also mostly a waste to use it in combat. I view it as being primarily for non-combat aid.

 

[Maxperson]

I’m not really on board with clerics gaining two Holy Orders—especially when there are only three of them. A cleric should only ever have one (except in the case of a subclass that has a feature to give them a second).

Yeah. I don't like it, either. It feels like something you specialize in, so getting two out of three doesn't sit right.

 

[Maxperson]

Divine Intervention is an odd choice when they called out that "Mother May I" is something that they're trying to remove from the game. That ability (while I love the story implications) is entirely up to the DM to decide what to do with. You know, if it ever happens, which will be almost never.

It's not Mother May I since you are not asking the DM's permission to use it. You get to use it when you declare it to be used, just like any other action. Then the DM narrates the result, just like any other action.

 

[Incenjucar]

It would be less weird if you got 2 out of 5+ options.