New Weapon Enhancement: Timestealing

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Reading "Thief of Time" (Terry Prattchest newest novel), I developed a new weapon enhancement:

--- Newest Draft ---
Timestealing:
Market Price Modifier: +3
Prerequisite: Haste, Slow
Benefit:
When you make a critical hit against a target, the target must make a Will Saving Throw DC 15 or be slowed for one round. At the same time, you will be hasted for the same time.

If you attack a hasted target with a Time Stealing Weapon, its haste will be dispelled and you will be hasted for one round. (You do not need a critical for this special effect, and the target receives no Saving Throw.)

The effect does only work once per round.

A slowed character suffers a -2 penalty to Attack Rolls and Armor Class, and can only take partial actions.
A hasted character gains a +4 Haste Bonus to AC and gets an extra partial action.
---

Thanks for any comments...

Mustrum Ridcully

PS: To Anyone who read the book:
Any ideas for a History Monk Prestige Class?

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Maybe change the description to "casts haste on the weilder and slow on the opponent for a duration of 1 round." Especially when dealing with haste and slow, a "next action" is hard to nail down. Also, the sword could potentially dispel haste. I'd say a market price of +3 at least.

 

[Fade]

A true History Monk would be overpowered, as a skilled monk can slice a few seconds into several hours, well enough to CDG all the motionless enemies in the entire complex. And with the portable procrastinators...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well. Probably the History Monk is a Epic Level Character - hey, Lu-Tze is 600 Years old - okay, he is a sweeper...
Hmm, but the abbot had several reincarnations, so...

 

[milo]

I think the DC would be 14, it requires a 13 in the spellcasting stat and is a 3rd level spell. This would be a difficult save for some of the fighters in the group I am playing in. But if it only lasts for a round it wouldn't be overpowered.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

time-stealing

>>But if it only lasts for a round it wouldn't be overpowered.<<

Oh yes it would!

It may only last a round, but in that round you can hit AGAIN (and its made it easier for you...)

Its a self-reciprocating haste-engine., IMO thats pretty broken.

Think about it; you hit once, and get hasted (ignoring that the target most convenient is also now slowed). You now have an extra chance (single attack) to hit again, or the opportunity to move and still full-attack in order to hit again. Which greatly increases your chances of being hasted AGAIN next round, which of course fuels your chances for the round after that... and on and on, until the DM realises that this ability equates to a good chance of Haste from round 2 onwards in every combat, oh - and against slowed foes too. (and you're still damaging these opponents while powering your haste and slow effects)

The power basically gives 2 spell castings and an attack in the space of time it takes to usually make an attack, and once the power is triggered, doubles that effect on the next round!

Vastly powerful.
I'd make this a +4, even if only working on a critical, and I'd not allow it if working on every hit.

It is, without a doubt, the most powerful effect I've ever seen suggested for a weapon

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Oh, yes, I see. You`re right about some of your comments, I think, though I do not agree with everything.

As a +3 enhancement only working on a critical hit (and thus not against undeads and constructs who are not subject to critical hits) it might be fine, no need for further restrictions, I think.
Combining it with the Keen Edge Ability and the Improved Critical Feat might make it much more powerful, but then it is already a +5 Weapon (+1 / Keen / Time Stealing), costing at least 50.000 gp Market Price - at that price, a weapon is expected to do some harm .
Be also aware of the Saving Throw against the effect.

Alternatively I could make it "maximum of 10 consecutive rounds per day" enhancement...

I will edit the text accordingly. I will stay with DC 15 for the Target.

Milo: I believe if you look in the DMG and read some of the magic items, every item that holds some spells allowing for a saving throw uses a throw based on the spell`s level and is completely ignoring the caster`s ability scores which would be required.
But I think DC 13 is a bit to weak for a +3 enhancement, especially when you`re already required to make a critical (this does not happen to often, does it?)

Oh, I will add an additional feature, since I get the impression that "double checking" (First a Critical, than a save) might make the enhancement to weak ... (Aargh. Balancing is difficult...)

 

[MonkeyBoy]

me again

When you say that the effect only works once per round, do you mean:

A; can only be triggered once per round, no matter how many criticals scored, or who against, or whether saves are passed.

B; can only be triggered once per character hit, per round, no matter how many criticals or saves

C; can only take effect once per round, no matter who hit, how many criticals or saves

etc
etc

probably better to give an example...

Character A has 4 attacks, and uses 2 each on 2 opponents. He gets lucky, and is going to score a crit with every attack. When opponent 1 gets hit the first time, he makes his save. When he is hit again, does he need to save again? (in this case we'll assume he fails the second save and the effect goes off)..

Now, when opponent 2 is hit, does he need to make a save? Would he have needed to had the first character made both saves?

Essentially, given enough criticals, the number of saves you require a character to make to avoid this effect greatly influences its power. If only the first critical in a round forces a save, then its a lot more balanced (or at least; easier to see the balance of).

BTW; I'm particularly wary of this effect, because I have a certain PC in my game who is a "crit specialist" (or "buzz-saw" as we like to call her...) Basically dual wielding keen longswords, with improved critical, and improved 2-weapon fighting etc, means she can rely (get that; rely) on at least 2 threats per round, usually more. Haste with that character is disgusting; she can move and then STILL get all those threats (and BTW; 10th level fighters convert threats like they were going out of fashion!). Allowing those threats and criticals to power more of the same... well thats what combo magic the gathering decks are all about, if you catch my drift...

(this PC handed 120+ points of damage in one round once, and averages 50+ all the time - without haste...)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What level is your character? And perhaps you should sometimes simply use enemies immune to Criticals (There is even a Magic Enhancement against it: Fortification. Okay, the best version is a +5 enhancement, quite expensive, but some opponents might have it...). Not too often, just sometimes to show that you should not always rely on. (No need to punish someone for using effective tactics, just to remember them that there is never a ultimative "win it all" tactic...)

What I meant is: You can use the special weapon enhancement only once per round, the first appliciable target is used.
So, if you attack someone hasted and score a critical, and than with your second attack attack another hasted enemy and with your 3 attack hit another one with a critical hit, then this would happen: You would dispell the first enemies haste. You will be hasted for one round. The other enemies would suffer the normal consequences for being hit by you, but not suffer from this enhancement.
Now, how can I formulate this in one, single and short and clear sentence?

 

[MonkeyBoy]

...

Hrmmm...

So; if we hit a hasted char at all, it dispells and hastes, once. If it is ALSO a critical, then it slows?

I'd be inclined to back off a bit, and go for;

Every hit can dispell a haste on the victim (any number of times). If you score a critical, then you are hasted for the next round. Should you score that critical on a non-hasted victim, then they must make the save to avoid being slowed.

Actually; i'd be really inclined to split this

Create one ability that causes slow on a critical, once per round, with save. (+1 ?)

Create another that dispells haste on a hit, once per round. (+1)

Create the last one that grants haste to you, for one round, on a critical, once per round. (+1 ? - possibly strong)

It'll be easier to see if the component parts are overpowered then, and you avoid all the convoluted terms and clauses.

Then just build the weapon with all 3 abilities