D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think you misunderstand. These templates SUCK, I won't deny that. Mechanically they are pointless before level 5, and then they are forced into use for the versions that don't want to use them. The Aquatic form is utterly pointless and should just be consumed by the Land form, leaving only the flying form which stays because Flyby but needs to be increased to 1d6 probably.

However, the concept of templates for the land, sea and sky forms works. The idea of replacing certain stats with your wisdom score works. The idea of your AC being a baseline + wis mod is decent. There are good bones here, there are ideas I don't want them tossing into the trash bin. This execution is insultingly bad, but let's not burn the baby as we boil the bathwater.
I agree with you about the bones here, but eesh! Most people just toss the baby out. You're boiling it alive! :p
 

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cranberry

Adventurer
I completely agree that the Moon druid is OP at lower levels, but there is an easy fix that doesn't require a useless plain vanilla stat block.


A little OT: There is one big factor (IMO) that offsets the power of wild shape (in 5E). Beasts have "side of a barn" AC. Sure, you have a bunch of extra HP, but they are depleted very quickly due to the low AC. When I played a Moon Druid, my wild shape rarely lasted more than 2 turns in front line combat.
 

I'm honestly concerned for 1D&D if the designers thought that this Wildshape was good enough to playtest. Just a cursory reading reveals that it is a borderline useless feature as written.
It's a great way to make the least played class even less played, though.
I completely agree that the Moon druid is OP at lower levels, but there is an easy fix that doesn't require a useless plain vanilla stat block.


A little OT: There is one big factor (IMO) that offsets the power of wild shape (in 5E). Beasts have "side of a barn" AC. Sure, you have a bunch of extra HP, but they are depleted very quickly due to the low AC. When I played a Moon Druid, my wild shape rarely lasted more than 2 turns in front line combat.
I keep seeing people forget that when they bring up the mountain of health Moon Druids get. Sure, they have lots of hit points, but they are basically auto-hit by enemies. It sort of balances out, because it isn't just about total hit points, it's about effective hit points.
 

Remathilis

Legend
It's a great way to make the least played class even less played, though.

I keep seeing people forget that when they bring up the mountain of health Moon Druids get. Sure, they have lots of hit points, but they are basically auto-hit by enemies. It sort of balances out, because it isn't just about total hit points, it's about effective hit points.
Does everyone forget to cast Barkskin before wild shaping? AC 16 is pretty respectable, and Resilient (Con) and War Caster are strong picks to keep up concentration in melee (as in, if you don't have them or aren't gaining them ASAP, consider why you are in melee in the first place).

To be honest, if all you want to do is become a bag of HP and turtle down, play a barbarian, not a druid.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I'm honestly concerned for 1D&D if the designers thought that this Wildshape was good enough to playtest. Just a cursory reading reveals that it is a borderline useless feature as written.

And I'm honestly hopefully since the base Ranger, base cleric, base rogue, Paladin, Devotion Paladin, various species and multiple revised spells and glossary rules are improvements.
 

Does everyone forget to cast Barkskin before wild shaping? AC 16 is pretty respectable, and Resilient (Con) and War Caster are strong picks to keep up concentration in melee (as in, if you don't have them or aren't gaining them ASAP, consider why you are in melee in the first place).

To be honest, if all you want to do is become a bag of HP and turtle down, play a barbarian, not a druid.

I most certainly did not forget. It's just a terrible spell, in my opinion. I'd rather concentrate on something more effective. 16ac is okay, better than the yoga pants level AC most beasts get by default, but it's not worth using concentration to get it.

Besides, part of the fun of being a big ol' bear is having that big pile of hit points as an easy target. The lower AC makes you a more appealing target. I see it was a feature and actually enjoy it. My point was that people complaining about how the Moon Druid has so many more hit points than a Barbarian or Eldritch Knight are excluding a very, very important factor into analyzing how defensive a character is.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Besides, part of the fun of being a big ol' bear is having that big pile of hit points as an easy target. The lower AC makes you a more appealing target. I see it was a feature and actually enjoy it. My point was that people complaining about how the Moon Druid has so many more hit points than a Barbarian or Eldritch Knight are excluding a very, very important factor into analyzing how defensive a character is.
So wait…is the low AC a key weakness of the Druid to balance the hp, or actually a benefit? I’m getting confused.

People are focusing on the wildshape defense but also it’s offense is really strong at those low levels as well.
 


So wait…is the low AC a key weakness of the Druid to balance the hp, or actually a benefit? I’m getting confused.

People are focusing on the wildshape defense but also it’s offense is really strong at those low levels as well.
It's a weakness in the Moon Druid, but a strength of the design. It makes Moon Druid tanking unique. In 5e as it exists now, there are multiple styles of tank who all have different strengths and weaknesses.

Moon Druids are great at soaking up lots of damage, but are basically auto-hit.
Eldritch Knights and Sorcadins have a nice mix of solid HP and amazing AC, so their total HP is lower, but their effective HP is through the roof.
Bladesingers are basically the opposite of a Moon Druid. Tiny little puddle of HP, but some extremely nice AC.
Barbarians have a big pool of HP and can effectively double it by raging, and this also doubles the effectiveness of healing them. Healing a Wild Shaped druid is a terrible idea, generally. Healing a Barbarian? Great idea, it's basically twice the heal for the same price.

I'm not saying this is all perfectly tuned, but the design actually leaves different styles that all function and have their own niche. The people who act like Moon Druids are invincible are misrepresenting the fact.
 

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