D&D (2024) Primal Power. Druid Tier List.

[mellored]

Can a shadow monk cast Darkness while is wildshape?

 

[Ashrym]

Can a shadow monk cast Darkness while is wildshape?

Not by RAW. They don't need components but they're still casting a spell.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not by RAW. They don't need components but they're still casting a spell.

Yeah. Both versions of wild shape (5.0 and 5.5) explicitly say you just can't cast spells, flat, while in wild shape. The only way around that would be to have a feature that says that you get an effect as if you had cast a particular spell, because then you aren't actually casting anything.

 

[Ashrym]

Circle of the Sea Spells.

Nice selection of utility and boom spells along with a free cantrip. Hold monster and lightning bolt are stand outs for good spells Druids dont get. Alot of the spells are Druid spells but B+ spell list imho.

They also give more bonus spells prepared than any other druid subclass in the 2024 PHB.

Wrath of the Sea.

Always on storm effect 5'. Reasonable damage early but scales poorly and only a 5'. Also targets constitution saves (generally poor target) and frost damage which is one of worst energy types that's not fire or poison. Still it's a cheap ability and it's almost free to use and lasts 10 minutes. Just have to get in close. Think I want True strike for this build. Only single target though consuming your bonus action.

I'm not sure "almost free to use" is the right description. Costing a use of Wild Shape for a 10 minute ability is a cost; but like many other druid abilities not too bad now that druids can reload using spell slots. 10 minutes compared to the hours moon druids get out of better wild shape forms seems the preferred approach to me.

The other concern is the range. The druid must be close to use this attack and the effect also pushes the target outside of the range. I see myself taking the warden option for better AC (as opposed to casting barkskin) then running up to try and bounce targets away.

Wrath of the Sea has potential pushing targets so it might be more useful than it first appears.

Level 6 aquatic affinity.

Wrath of the Sea is a 10' and you gain a swim speed. 10' is a lot more useful and easily capable of 4d6 damage now.

The range increase is minor, and if I need a swim speed I can already do that with wild shape. Level doesn't offer much.

Level 10 Storm Born.
Flight and resistance to 3 energy types. Being able to fly is great. 5d6 damage probably . 10' radius poor man's spiritual guardians spellslot free. A tier now.

Very poor man's spirit guardians since it's still single target, but the damage as a bonus action isn't bad. The only part Storm Born offers is flight and damage resistance.

Every druid can cast a concentration attack spell on their action, wild shape to a flying form, and then use that fly speed at that level. The benefit is not using wild shape and being able to cast spells while flying before 18th level. Moon druids can do that with Starry Wisp or Conjure Animals 2 levels sooner.

Flying in combat tends to take the druid outside of Wrath of the Sea range.

Storm Born is useful, but I don't think it adds as much as it first appears.

Level 14. Oceanic Gift.

Wrath of the Sea can be put on someone else or you can spend two wildshapes to gift it and have it on yourself.

I think this is really good if there's a character without much use of bonus actions. Granting a 5d6 bonus action to someone without a bonus action seems very useful. The only issue is when that someone doesn't exist in the group.

If nothing else give it to your Wild Companion.

Well this class looks fun but it's main feature is really a weak spiritual guardian effect that only targets a single being. And deals mediocre damage outside tier 1. Also some campaign dependent situational abilities. Nothing is bad however. B tier overall A in the right campaign.

It does look fun. This subclass seems centered around a bonus action damage option with a push effect. It doesn't stand out as stronger than other options.

 

[Zardnaar]

They also give more bonus spells prepared than any other druid subclass in the 2024 PHB.



I'm not sure "almost free to use" is the right description. Costing a use of Wild Shape for a 10 minute ability is a cost; but like many other druid abilities not too bad now that druids can reload using spell slots. 10 minutes compared to the hours moon druids get out of better wild shape forms seems the preferred approach to me.

The other concern is the range. The druid must be close to use this attack and the effect also pushes the target outside of the range. I see myself taking the warden option for better AC (as opposed to casting barkskin) then running up to try and bounce targets away.

Wrath of the Sea has potential pushing targets so it might be more useful than it first appears.



The range increase is minor, and if I need a swim speed I can already do that with wild shape. Level doesn't offer much.



Very poor man's spirit guardians since it's still single target, but the damage as a bonus action isn't bad. The only part Storm Born offers is flight and damage resistance.

Every druid can cast a concentration attack spell on their action, wild shape to a flying form, and then use that fly speed at that level. The benefit is not using wild shape and being able to cast spells while flying before 18th level. Moon druids can do that with Starry Wisp or Conjure Animals 2 levels sooner.

Flying in combat tends to take the druid outside of Wrath of the Sea range.

Storm Born is useful, but I don't think it adds as much as it first appears.



I think this is really good if there's a character without much use of bonus actions. Granting a 5d6 bonus action to someone without a bonus action seems very useful. The only issue is when that someone doesn't exist in the group.

If nothing else give it to your Wild Companion.



It does look fun. This subclass seems centered around a bonus action damage option with a push effect. It doesn't stand out as stronger than other options.

Lands better right?

 

[Ashrym]

Lands better right?

I think so but not by much. The 3rd level abilities both have pros and cons, the land druid 6th level ability is definitely better, the 10th level ability favors the sea druid, and land druids don't need to compete with another character's bonus action in the 14th level ability.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think so but not by much. The 3rd level abilities both have pros and cons, the land druid 6th level ability is definitely better, the 10th level ability favors the sea druid, and land druids don't need to compete with another character's bonus action in the 14th level ability.

That's pretty much my take as well.

I was going to B- it as I thought land was better but as a B.

 

[mellored]

Sea and Stars last 10 minutes, so you likely won't need more uses very often.

Correcting myself.

Sea needs 2 uses at level 14+ (concentration free flying for an ally is worthwhile). So they will be using a few slots into wild shape at upper levels.
But still less than moon.

 

[Zardnaar]

Correcting myself.

Sea needs 2 uses at level 14+ (concentration free flying for an ally is worthwhile). So they will be using a few slots into wild shape at upper levels.
But still less than moon.

They get 4 uses then and can sacrifice a spell slot iirc?

 

[mellored]

They get 4 uses then and can sacrifice a spell slot iirc?

Yes.
I just forgot they needed 2 uses at 14, and thus will need to spend slot or 2.

This subclass seems centered around a bonus action damage option with a push effect

The issue is that the best druid spells are concentration, and you need to be standing next to an enemy at the end of your turn. So there is a high risk of losing Spiked Growth.

Maybe if there was a rogue with sentinel, world tree who could pull you away, or you where in small corridors.

But better off with Star -> Archer most of the time IMO.