D&D (2024) Tier List. Barbarian Review and Ratings.

[Mort]

Sure, you can do that to your heart's content, but what's the use case benefit there? Ranged allies should really be more than 30 ft away from you and probably don't want to be that close to melee anyways. Melee allies should mostly already be engaged with their target.

Maybe occasionally at the start of battle if you go before a slower melee character you can teleport one 30ft forward to help him close the gap, but that's fairly situational as well.

Grapple is even more common than it was before, this allows an easy escape from one.

Easy spirit guardians abuse, if you're into that (either by teleporting an enemy or teleporting the cleric)



Teleport positioning is just big. Especially unlimited and by tier 2.

Like maybe if you could teleport someone anywhere within 30ft I could come up with better use cases.

But as it stands the only consistent Use Case I see is to help you tank - which is cool, i like tanking, but getting a good tank ability isn't tier S.

Teleporting to the Barbarian takes away most of the benefits of traditional teleporting. Misty step can be used in exploration to get places you otherwise couldn't or to really kite enemies in combat. This can't.

I'm not saying any of the abilities are bad. You've not got to sale me on this being a good subclass. But it being good, doesn't mean it's tier S.

I have no problem with that, but @Zardnaar is supposed to be giving the higher level subclass abilities little weight due to rarely being played, so even if it's the best level 14 subclass ability for Barbarian, his weights shouldn't mean that ability has much impact on the rankings.

The point is it's consistently good abilities all tiers.

I'd pit Zealot or Berserker against it.

The berserker is very close, and better for damage. But it doesn't have the full barbarian AND really good party support angle. In my opinion, that gives the world tree the edge.

The zealot is less close. It's fine but, especially if we're ranking higher level abilities less, it's set of abilities isn't as good, again IMO.

 

[FrogReaver]

I agree it's a good one but... when it happens, ok, fantastic. But often is that going to be? Maybe 1/3 battles? And the barbarian won't be targeted/fail their save in every battle, so it's going to be relevant in say, 1/4 battles...

Not often but doesn't matter. When it does happen you go from probably doing nothing to acting normally, which is huge. It's analysis factoring in (chance of happening) * (impact when it does happen).

The World Tree ability is relevant every fight - I wouldn't say every found, but saying 1/2 of rounds seems quite likely. So even though it's not quite so dramatic/clutch... it can be. Bamfing a friend out of a very dangerous situation - that too will happen rarely, perhaps even more so than the shrugging off a charm/fear, but it sill be just as impactful.

Outside of using to to help tank, i think other use cases will come up about as often as facing fear/charm and it's far less impactful than immunity to fear/charm when those situations arise.

Also the berserker or zealot had an amazing ability since level 3 that is extremely good every fight, and while boring and not flashy, more damage is very useful!

So you have the same "big clutch" potential, but also a "useful almost all the time" (in combat) side to it, and a small utility one too (climb up on a roof, bamf up the rest of the party up).

As I've noted 5x now, the subclass has potential for tier S in the right party/campaign. But in most parties it's probably going to be less impactful than the more damage and immunity to fear of the berserker.

So based on frequency and potentcy, the World Tree level 6 ability is better.

I disagree. It's a more fun ability, but more effective?

It's not just tanking -it's tanking and control

Control is meaningful because it takes actions away from team enemy. This does not ever do that.

 

[Mort]

It's not just tanking -it's tanking and control

Right.

And let's not forget 2d6-4d6 extra HP to an ally, EVERY ROUND. Yes it's temp HP, but still.

That's basically aura of vitality without concentration, just as bonus when you rage.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The subclasses really fall into rolls. Berserker is DPS, World Tree is Tank, wild heart is utility, and zealot is middle of the road.

 

[Mort]

Not often but doesn't matter. When it does happen you go from probably doing nothing to acting normally, which is huge. It's analysis factoring in (chance of happening) * (impact when it does happen).

Outside of using to to help tank, i think other use cases will come up about as often as facing fear/charm and it's far less impactful than immunity to fear/charm when those situations arise.

Also the berserker or zealot had an amazing ability since level 3 that is extremely good every fight, and while boring and not flashy, more damage is very useful!

As I've noted 5x now, the subclass has potential for tier S in the right party/campaign. But in most parties it's probably going to be less impactful than the more damage and immunity to fear of the berserker.

I disagree. It's a more fun ability, but more effective?

Control is meaningful because it takes actions away from team enemy. This does not ever do that.

Of course it does, it reduces an enemies speed to 0. That takes away many options for the enemy.

Plus, the increased range (combined with say polearm master or sentinel) is huge. Between bonus actions and reactions the barbarian is holding multiple targets still. That's hard to come by in 5e, especially for a martial character.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right.

And let's not forget 2d6-4d6 extra HP to an ally, EVERY ROUND. Yes it's temp HP, but still.

That's basically aura of vitality without concentration, just as bonus when you rage.

I view that ability quite differently due to the limited range of 10ft from you.

1. the temp hp aren't given on the first turn you rage
2. After that first turn you are going to melee range, so ranged allies won't be in range anymore
3. Assuming there's more than 1 enemy, melee allies probably are fanning out to attack separate threats, so it won't even be guaranteed they are near enough to you
4. it's high variability because you can only provide 2 temp hp with it. Meaning you can't rely on this to save a low hp ally just by moving close.

I think it's a far more situational ability than it first seems.

 

[FrogReaver]

Of course it does, it reduces an enemies speed to 0. That takes away many options for the enemy.

On the enemies turn it puts them beside you and reduces their speed to 0. They can still act by attacking you. That's not control, it's tanking.

Plus, the increased range (combined with say polearm master or sentinel) is huge. Between bonus actions and reactions the barbarian is holding multiple targets still. That's hard to come by in 5e, especially for a martial character.

This is a reaction. Sentinel is a reaction, PAM attack is a reaction. OA's with the bigger range are reactions. Pretty much everything else the Barbarian would do to hold other enemies in place is negated by this. I guess there's grapple?

 

[Mort]

I view that ability quite differently due to the limited range of 10ft from you.

1. the temp hp aren't given on the first turn you rage
2. After that first turn you are going to melee range, so ranged allies won't be in range anymore
3. Assuming there's more than 1 enemy, melee allies probably are fanning out to attack separate threats, so it won't even be guaranteed they are near enough to you
4. it's high variability because you can only provide 2 temp hp with it. Meaning you can't rely on this to save a low hp ally just by moving close.

I think it's a far more situational ability than it first seems.

Barbarians have good movement, from what I've seen 10 feet is plenty. Plus, the barbarian can move an ally to them from 30ft away if necessary.

 

[Mort]

On the enemies turn it puts them beside you and reduces their speed to 0. They can still act by attacking you. That's not control, it's tanking.

It moves an enemy away from a target you don't want them attacking and puts them next to a target that can take it. That's both control and tanking. Combining the two increases the utility of both.

 

[FrogReaver]

Barbarians have good movement, from what I've seen 10 feet is plenty. Plus, the barbarian can move an ally to them from 30ft away if necessary.

At what cost? An OA everytime they want to give an ally 2d6 temp hp?
Putting an ally that needs the temp hp that much closer to an enemy?