D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[Horwath]

Tiny size should be available from level 3.

This kind is wildshape should be at-will ability, costing only (bonus) Action to activate.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Tiny size should be available from level 3.

This kind is wildshape should be at-will ability, costing only (bonus) Action to activate.

No. Level 3 is too early. But 7 would be appropriate.

 

[Clint_L]

Negative. Tiny should come as soon as you can wild shape. It is super fun in the story, especially at low levels. I would let them have it at level 1 if possible.

 

[Horwath]

No. Level 3 is too early. But 7 would be appropriate.

why?

you deal half damage.

You dont even get advantage on Stealth.

let's wait 11(or 7 as you suggest) levels to give druids somewhat useful exploration/role-play tool.
talk about; too little, too late.

It's same as current rangers Vanish ability. Bonus action Hide at 14th level? Yeah, about 11 levels too late.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

why?

you deal half damage.

You dont even get advantage on Stealth.

let's wait 11(or 7 as you suggest) levels to give druids somewhat useful exploration/role-play tool.
talk about; too little, too late.

It's same as current rangers Vanish ability. Bonus action Hide at 14th level? Yeah, about 11 levels too late.

Yeah. Lets put EVERYTHING into level 3. Why do I have to wait 17 levels for the Wish spell?

But yeah. Maybe tiny should be their own form and have advantage on stealth and no WIS to STR replacement.

 

[Enrahim2]

Some ideas:
Add proficiency bonus to AC.
Double the effect of healing on self when in beast form, and allow casting abdurations/healing as a bonus action. (This might fix the spell slot issue mentioned by @Chaosmancer)
Gain inspiration when wildshaping - optional rule this can be replaced by DM granting proficiency/experise in an form aproperiate skill.
Make the moon druid bonus action a bestial strike rather than an unarmed strike (i suspect this was what was intended)

I think these are ideas that would at least start working toward a solution to the main criticisms (except tiny) while keeping the core ideas?

 

[Horwath]

They should really take a hint from 3.5e PHB2 druid.

1st level wild shape: medium size, land speed 40ft
+4 STR, 1d6 damage, one attack

3rd level, tiny size, half speed of any form
1 damage attack, one attack
advantage on stealth

3rd level, aquatic shape, swim speed 40, breathe water, land speed 20
+4 STR, 1d6 damage, one attack

5th level, gain 2nd attack

7th level, underdark shape: burrow speed 20, land speed 20,
+4 STR, 1d6 damage

9th level, flight shape: fly speed 60, land speed 10,
+2 STR, 1d4 damage

11th level: large size, +4 additional STR in all shapes

13th level: elemental shape

17th level: huge size: +8 additional STR for all shapes


Moon druid:
Bonus action wildshape, 1st level
+4 additional STR in all forms, 3rd level
natural weapons count as magical, 6th level
damage reduction equal to proficiency bonus, 10th level
spellcasting in wild shape, 14th level

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They should really take a hint from 3.5e PHB2 druid.

1st level wild shape: medium size, land speed 40ft
+4 STR, 1d6 damage, one attack

3rd level, tiny size, half speed of any form
1 damage attack, one attack
advantage on stealth

3rd level, aquatic shape, swim speed 40, breathe water, land speed 20
+4 STR, 1d6 damage, one attack

5th level, gain 2nd attack

7th level, underdark shape: burrow speed 20, land speed 20,
+4 STR, 1d6 damage

9th level, flight shape: fly speed 60, land speed 10,
+2 STR, 1d4 damage

11th level: large size, +4 additional STR in all shapes

13th level: elemental shape

17th level: huge size: +8 additional STR for all shapes


Moon druid:
Bonus action wildshape, 1st level
+4 additional STR in all forms, 3rd level
natural weapons count as magical, 6th level
damage reduction equal to proficiency bonus, 10th level
spellcasting in wild shape, 14th level

Nope. +STR way worse than replacing STR with WIS.
Otherwise you see all those 20 STR Barbarian/Druids.

Generally the template approach us way better. It just needs some more balancing/improving.

Edit: now thinking of it, I think STR should just be a fixed value, starting at 16 and probably going up to 24 or even more.

 

[Horwath]

Nope. +STR way worse than replacing STR with WIS.
Otherwise you see all those 20 STR Barbarian/Druids.

Generally the template approach us way better. It just needs some more balancing/improving.

Edit: now thinking of it, I think STR should just be a fixed value, starting at 16 and probably going up to 24 or even more.

that could work.

but, with +x STR you can have moon druids based on STR and not so good spellcasting and good spellcasters and not so good wildshape fighters.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

that could work.

but, with +x STR you can have moon druids based on STR and not so good spellcasting and good spellcasters and not so good wildshape fighters.

If that is your intend, and your proposal of subclass at level 1 is in place, that could work.
But since I like it better that you play your class for 2 levels before making that big decision, I think, putting a fixed STR in (and making that higher for moon druids) makes more sense.

I think, if you would make a 5e derrivate game, that has subclass 1st level which impact the base classes way more than they do now, it would make a fine game... but I think OneD&D is the wrong place.