Pathfinder 1E newbie Wizard takes step into a big, scary Pathfinder world

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What is your opinion on the most useful Wizard school? I was thinking of picking Conjuration school but adding in some offensive Evocation spells.

Conjurations and Transmutations, generally speaking, are the best bang-for-the-buck. Illusions aren't bad, either. Enchantment is, literally, hit-or-miss.

If you like Evocations, there's nothing wrong with them; it's just that they tend to be somewhat underwhelming at low levels (2d4+2 damage from a magic missile or 5d4 fire in a 15' cone from burning hands that you can do 1/day vs. 1d8 forever with a bow or a color spray or sleep spell essentially killing 2-4 enemies). At high levels, you start running into specific energy resistances, meaning you have to be really careful with your spell selection or be caught somewhat useless - tossing fire at a fire resistant guy doesn't do much, but a wall of stone between him and his allies is a wall of stone between him and his allies.

I didn't know that touch spells were not discharged unless they hit - that's awesome! Clarification: if I cast Shocking Grasp but miss, if I cast a different spell next round is the Shocking Grasp this discharged and wasted - meaning that a missed touch attack isn't wasted but it must continually be attempted until hit/discharged?

Note that this applies to melee touch spells only; ranged touch spells still only have the one shot. (Also, in Pathfinder, ranged touch spells explicitly provoke two AoOs - one for casting, and one for making a ranged attack. Casting defensively - which PF also made harder - only blocks the first one.)

And yes, if you cast another spell (or, actually, touch anything else), the held melee touch spell goes away.

By the way, I didn't comment specifically earlier, but I will follow your the recommendation to use the pipe as a "prop" of sorts when describing my spells.

Cool! If aught else, it makes the DM's job much, much easier.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

What is your opinion on the most useful Wizard school?

It's a toss-up between Conjuration (some offense with no SR, summons, etc.) and Transmutation (fly, haste, etc.).

 

[buddhafrog]

I can't give you more XP, but maybe I could be a Wizard apprentice for the Patryn of Elvenshae?

 

[buddhafrog]

I'm leaning towards Conjuration school as the 1/2 duration extend is pretty nice and there are good spells I like at all levels, so no worries in filling those bonus slots. There are some offensive damage evocation spells and transmutation spells that I will add to my slots. I'm leaning towards Nec and Adj as my opposition schools. I'm doing more spell studying and finding the right combos.

 

[Dingo333]

if you like conjuration, you might be better off taking summoner as your next character, a little better then wizards and a little worse, but building an eidolon is fun, and allows you to be a caster and a melee fighter all at once.

As for school, I have a personal preference towards the Air school, battle get hairy, flight is always handy to have. As for the elemental resistances, some common sense and metamagic rods of elemental magic work wonders. Immune to electric? shocking grasp is now a chilling grasp. Immune to fire? burning hands is now an acidic hands.

A side note to shocking grasp. My DM allowed it, I had an air elemental familiar (you can get one at 5th level with a feat) and I asked is I designated him as the "toucher" and he transformed to whirlwind form, if it would zap everyone in the whirlwind. He said yes, and that was one of my favorite moves as I could "touch" up to 8 people with the spell, and 5d6 was a nasty zap for them to take.

Your DM may not allow that, especially after reading my post, cause I would also have the air elemental fly behind or into groups, Cast, transform, and zap.

Last note, Abj has dispel magic in it, and it is always one of the first 3rd level spells I grab. I can use it to counter spells tossed at the group, "disarm" magic traps, even eliminate enemy magic items, like armor, or weapons. I would go with necromancy and enchantment if I picked up a main stream school

 

[buddhafrog]

As for school, I have a personal preference towards the Air school, battle get hairy, flight is always handy to have. As for the elemental resistances, some common sense and metamagic rods of elemental magic work wonders. Immune to electric? shocking grasp is now a chilling grasp. Immune to fire? burning hands is now an acidic hands.

Last note, Abj has dispel magic in it, and it is always one of the first 3rd level spells I grab. I can use it to counter spells tossed at the group, "disarm" magic traps, even eliminate enemy magic items, like armor, or weapons. I would go with necromancy and enchantment if I picked up a main stream school

Thanks for the dispel magic advice. I've never used or seen it used (I'm new, obviously). 4e doesn't include these types of spells which is really too bad. Anyway, I will look closely at that spell. Maybe that would be a Wand item if I still go with abj an opposite school.

QUESTION: there are no penaltys in using spells from an opposite school in a magic item like a wand, right?

Air School. Right after I typed my earlier post, I realized I didn't mention Air School. I'm not overwhelmed with the base spells and honestly don't have a good idea yet how the elemental aspects work... BUT,

• feather fall at will is nice, if not exciting. I've decided that I'll have this spell in my spellbook and if needed in an emergency, it would be my bonded item spell - assuming I haven't used it yet. But having it at will is much better
• Levitate at will at level 5 is awesome!
• Fly at will at Level 10 is pretty insane!

These level abilities far outweigh the other APG elemental schools in my inexperienced opinion. Am I wrong? They make me heavily consider this school - but have to understand better what I'll miss from the Earth school.

QUESTION: With a fly spell, I can cast this on a willing creature and requires the same level of concentration as walking. Can I cast this on multiple people at the same time? At will with Air Elemental school powers? I'm guessing no, but I don't see where this is written.

I'm going to ask my DM if I can go with the pipe as my bonded item, but like a ring/amulet I don't want to need to be holding it at all times. Thus, it would require taking up a magic item slot, right? I'm not sure where this might fit best - suggestions?

I don't want to have this go without saying, so thanks for your advice everyone. It is unbelievably helpful.

 

[Dingo333]

These level abilities far outweigh the other APG elemental schools in my inexperienced opinion. Am I wrong? They make me heavily consider this school - but have to understand better what I'll miss from the Earth school.

My break down of the elemental schools and their usefulness/effect

Air
+2 (+3 at 5,+4 at 10,+5 at 15) to fly skill, Not handy till you can cast something to let you fly, but as you get to cast fly on yourself at level 10, can be handy.
At level 20, the bonus is almost pointless, as you treat the roll as a natural 20 meaning, in a tornado, for a medium character, you have a result of 10 without ranks or dex added in

Blinding flash:1d6+1/2 wizard levels plus dazzled for 1-4 rounds. Good escape, bad offensive though. has a very limited range, and a save to half damage and negate dazzle.

Cyclone: Very good defense vs all but giants, siege engines, and magic, but as it is noticeable pretty easily, bad on stealth

Earth
+2 (+3 at 5th, +4 at 10th, +5 at 15th, +6 at 20th) to CMD vs a lot of effects. Usefulness depends on DM's use of those effects IMO, and even then, theses would be great for a melee based person, but terrible on a caster who doesn't wanna be hit. Bonus to hit and damage is likewise good, but bad idea for caster. At 20, not being blocked by a wall is good, but you can't see through said wall so, eh

Acid Cloud: 1d6+1/2 wizard levels, ranged area. Good offence and defense ability, can cover an escape or be an opening blast for an assault, Fort to negate sicken. Forts tend to be weaker then Ref saves in my experience so not as big a penalty as air school's

Earthglide: Useful for ambush or retreat, just watch the duration. speeding up yourself while gliding is a very good idea and is more stealthy then flying to the battle

Fire
Resistance to fire is awesome, immunity is better. At 20, feel free to plop your fireballs anywhere you want to, you wont get hurt. You also don't get vulnerability to cold like most things with fire resistance get. The fire sheath is great too for a defense move.

Fire Jet: 1d6+1/2 wizard levels, 20ft line, Ref to avoid catching on fire. Note that it can also set grass, trees, and that such on fire, which you can then take to defend yourself with.

Dancing Flame: Very good offence, keep allies safe in a fireball without using a feat, or move your walls of fire to cut off retreats and roast new enemies once they run from where you put it at first.

Water
(this one is honestly the weakest I feel, unless you are having your adventure on the high seas)
Scaling bonus to swim, eh, honestly, only in an adventure on the high seas is that gonna be worth it, same with the holding breath and swim speed, though the auto 20 is great in a skill you don't want to put skill points in

Cold Blast: see the air power, good to cover an escape or when cornered, but no offensive value.

Wave: This is actually decent, especially at sea as you could capsize a ship with a good roll. Also slow down pursuers, knock opponents off balance, literally turn the tides of the battle

As for spells, they are still all there, it just takes 2 slots to prepare an earth spell for an Air wizard. As far as I can tell, there are some spells that make me cry a little to lose, like reverse gravity and all I get is control weather and mass fly. Or some spells like Stoneskin, or the line of pit spells. But over all, the Air school has some of the better spells and you can still do fire and water spells with no penalties

 

[steenan]

A few comments and advices. Some of them overlap with what people said here before, some go in different directions.

1. You were probably denied AoOs not because of negative attack, but because of being unarmed. If I were you, I wouldn't care about it. If enemies provoke AoOs from you, it means that you are close to them. As a wizard, you should not be.

2. I suggest forgetting about any touch spells. They may become useful later, when you have several defensive buffs, a reach spell feat (or rod) or something similar. For now, better to stay out of melee.

3. If you want to have a bonded item, your pipe is a good idea, very flavorful. If you also take Craft wondrous item, you may enchant it with something fun - just ask your DM what powers would fit.

4. On the other hand, if you plan to play this character for more than a few levels, taking a familiar may be a better idea. The more spells you prepare daily, the less useful is additional one, even if cast spontaneously. On the other hand, some improved familiars are really good (especially silvanshee).

5. You don't need strength higher than 7. Even at level 4 enemies have enough HPs to ignore the damage you deal with a bow or other weapon. Even a first level spell is much more tactically useful.

6. On the other hand, I advise against dumping charisma below 10. You're an elf and a wizard! You want to look graceful and sound wise. Charisma is not mechanically useful for you, so don't put many points there, but don't dump it either.

7. If you plan to use reasonably many conjuration spells, specialize in this school. Take the teleportation focused school (from APG). It gives you a short range (10ft at level 4), swift action teleportation several times a day. A perfect way to get away from someone without provoking AoOs and still cast your spell.

8. In general, avoid wasting actions on dealing damage - other members of your party will be better at it. Conjuration specialist's job is making enemies' lives harder. At level 4 you have access to 2nd level spells, which gives you Summon swarm (make enemy spellcaster useless for several rounds), Glitterdust (make enemies with low Will useless for several rounds), Create pit (from APG; make enemies with low Ref useless for several rounds) etc.
If you want to play with dealing damage, take spells that don't cost you actions to do it. Flaming sphere uses only move action each round after the first, and the damage is quite good.

9. Avoid summon monster spells for now. They take long to cast, which makes them risky in fight, and last too short for any out of combat usefulness. They'll get better when your party rogue has several attacks per round with reasonable amount of sneak damage (for giving her flanking opportunities) and when you have mass buffs like Haste,

 

[buddhafrog]

More great advice. Life would be easier if you all agreed, but then the game would be far less interesting, right? I've already offered my Wizard apprenticeship to Patryn of Elvenshae, but I might come knocking at your door if he won't have me. Very useful stuff - and it makes sense.

Building a Wizard is far more complicated, especially if you really start with almost no background in this system. With that said, it's tons of fun!

I didn't mention this before, but my party consists of only me, the former Tobacconist-turned-Wizard, a Rogue/Fighter, a Figher/Cleric. Only three of us (which is pretty amazing seeing that we were able to get together at all while in Korea). This does affect my choices. One reason I have been considering summoning more closely is b/c I think it'll help to put more bodies on the battlefield.

You were probably denied AoOs not because of negative attack, but because of being unarmed. If I were you, I wouldn't care about it. If enemies provoke AoOs from you, it means that you are close to them. As a wizard, you should not be.

Exactly. I rechecked my character and that was the case. I didn't *try* to get into melee, it sort of came to me. After two deaths, I'm appropriately focused on staying far away from melee.

I suggest forgetting about any touch spells. They may become useful later, when you have several defensive buffs, a reach spell feat (or rod) or something similar. For now, better to stay out of melee.

agreed

On the other hand, if you plan to play this character for more than a few levels, taking a familiar may be a better idea. The more spells you prepare daily, the less useful is additional one, even if cast spontaneously. On the other hand, some improved familiars are really good (especially silvanshee).

I've considered this but mostly feel comfortable with the bonded item b/c adding the familiar is adding more complication/options. My hands are full here and I want to really grasp well who the Wizard is and what he can do. I understand these statements could be contradictory, but hey... My feeling is that if I knew how to use a familiar best, it might be more powerful and I think I might build a familiar Wizard next time around. Right now however, I worry about choosing the right spells to memorize and the bonded item gives me flexibility with the one free spellbook spell... and lastly, I've built it into my character concept with the pipe.

You don't need strength higher than 7. Even at level 4 enemies have enough HPs to ignore the damage you deal with a bow or other weapon. Even a first level spell is much more tactically useful.

On the other hand, I advise against dumping charisma below 10. You're an elf and a wizard! You want to look graceful and sound wise. Charisma is not mechanically useful for you, so don't put many points there, but don't dump it either.

Argh, you may be right... but I think I'm keeping Str over Cha. I've built my character concept around a low Cha. And I don't mind not being the face of the party.

If you plan to use reasonably many conjuration spells, specialize in this school. Take the teleportation focused school (from APG). It gives you a short range (10ft at level 4), swift action teleportation several times a day. A perfect way to get away from someone without provoking AoOs and still cast your spell.

This was my plan. I first mis-read the teleport as "5 squares" not "5 feet". But still, very useful.

In general, avoid wasting actions on dealing damage - other members of your party will be better at it. Conjuration specialist's job is making enemies' lives harder. At level 4 you have access to 2nd level spells, which gives you Summon swarm (make enemy spellcaster useless for several rounds), Glitterdust (make enemies with low Will useless for several rounds), Create pit (from APG; make enemies with low Ref useless for several rounds) etc.

If you want to play with dealing damage, take spells that don't cost you actions to do it. Flaming sphere uses only move action each round after the first, and the damage is quite good.

Avoid summon monster spells for now. They take long to cast, which makes them risky in fight, and last too short for any out of combat usefulness. They'll get better when your party rogue has several attacks per round with reasonable amount of sneak damage (for giving her flanking opportunities) and when you have mass buffs like Haste,

Flaming Sphere for sure. Good advice. I worry b/c we have only a 3-person party so I will need a little more damage output than for most Wizards. Still, very good advice.

QUESTION: Is Summon Swarm just one a 5 ft swarm? In case they head to attack a party member (unlikely if I place them correctly), would it take a standard action to dispell the swarm? Duration is concentration + 2 rounds. I understand how I might have to roll concentration when I try to cast a spell under various conditions, but how would it apply here when I'm trying to keep this spell in place - can I still take other actions/cast other spells, etc?