D&D 5E Newbies reading the MM and DMG?

[KarinsDad]

If he actually ends up metagaming then I'd bring it up with him and tell him to either stop it or leave the game.

Why is one of the first reactions often "stop or leave"?

It's better for our gaming community to work with people then it is to work against them. There are often gaming or social faux pas that players make, some big, some minor. The thing is to gradually smooth out the rough edges of new players, just like you would with any other social group.

Our society today has a lot of information on the Internet about games. People grow up today thinking that it is perfectly acceptable to cheat in games, use cheat codes, know things about mobs, etc. If that behavior is not what a DM likes, then he should work with the player. It's not that I condone cheating, but our young people are being taught that it is becoming more and more acceptable (just look at the percentage of cheating at college campuses). Having the group frown on the activity and explaining it to the player without a threat is the way to go. Sure, he might still backslide once in a while, but the more the rest of the table reinforces behavioral expectations, the more likely a person is to coexist and become an asset to the table.

 

[Thank Dog]

It's better for our gaming community to work with people then it is to work against them. There are often gaming or social faux pas that players make, some big, some minor. The thing is to gradually smooth out the rough edges of new players, just like you would with any other social group.

Yes, that's why you offer a chance for them to change. If they're not willing to change then they need to leave the group as they only serve to be a disruptive influence. Forcing the group to conform to one player's wishes isn't how group dynamics work. It is better for that player and for the group to have similar preferences of play. In this instance, he is the odd man out. If this were a group of metagamers and one person insisted on roleplaying every scenario, I'd be advocating that the roleplayer either change or leave.

 

[Mercurius]

I remember being a newbie devouring multiple AD&D hardcovers. It is hard for me to fault anyone for wanting to pour over the MM and DMG because, well, "we all did it" and, goddamnit, it was fun.

That said, I get your concern about metagaming. There's little more annoying than a player trying to get an edge by knowing too much. But I'd be very, very careful about accusing him of that. If you find that he is doing sketchy things, start small and say, "You know, the game is more fun for all if you can separate your knowledge as a player from your knowledge as a character." I mean, you could look at it as your responsibility to teach him the ropes of roleplaying.

Anyhow, good luck!

 

[was]

Always customize your monsters using the MM as a reference.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt at first. If it is clear that he's using out-of-game knowledge to advantage his character in-game then I'd change the monsters up (and, as others have said, many people do this after a while when players have become familiar with a lot of the monsters).

If he tries to call you out on one of his changes simply ask him how his PC would know such a thing.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, that's why you offer a chance for them to change. If they're not willing to change then they need to leave the group as they only serve to be a disruptive influence. Forcing the group to conform to one player's wishes isn't how group dynamics work. It is better for that player and for the group to have similar preferences of play. In this instance, he is the odd man out. If this were a group of metagamers and one person insisted on roleplaying every scenario, I'd be advocating that the roleplayer either change or leave.

The way you are phrasing it, it sounds like if you catch him metagaming just once, then boom. Out. "I warned you.".

You might not be saying that, but if you are, I think that's a bit harsh, that's all. The conversation was about a player who reads the MM and the DMG. To me, that's not a major sin, even if the player does pick up a little knowledge here or there. I suspect that a good majority of people here have read a lot in various DMGs and MMs, and I'd rather have a player join who is heavily into the game enough to read the DMG and MM instead of a player who just casually shows up and doesn't take much interest in the game.


In our group, we have a variety of players. Some like to roleplay more, some like combat more, at least one likes puzzle/problem solving. We balance it out without drawing a heavy line in the sand. Each PC gets their chance to shine, each player gets chances to do what they like.


I do agree that problem players can be disruptive, but I like to give people a few chances first.

 

[Thank Dog]

The way you are phrasing it, it sounds like if you catch him metagaming just once, then boom. Out. "I warned you.".

How do you get that from this:

If he actually ends up metagaming then I'd bring it up with him and tell him to either stop it or leave the game.

There's nothing wrong with my phrasing.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think the OP should be GLAD his player is enthusiastic enough to go and buy the books, including the monster manual. Who cares if he knows some secrets about the monsters. A simple knowledge check, or background, or roleplaying, will reveal the same.

And if you really want to surprise him, just change the monster a little. No big deal.

Also, perhaps you can mould this player into a potential DM. Nothing is more important to the hobby than encouraging new DMs. Ideally, in my view, everyone would both play and DM at different times. And to do that you need to know quite a bit about monsters.

 

[Paraxis]

To each his own, three of my players are DM's of their campaigns. I put away the idea of only the DM looks/owns/reads the "DM" books back in the late 80's. As a DM we are telling a shared story in a shared world, it is a cooperative experience, you are a rules arbiter and story teller not some all powerful god handing down judgements on the characters or worse players.

 

[Elf Witch]

If I threw out every player for metagaming I would have no one to play with. I think the longer you play then it becomes kind of hard sometimes to keep player knowledge from the character. I have never met one player in over 30 years of playing who does not slip up and do this now and then.

I think the best way to handle it is to ask how does your character know? That usually right there stops it.

Now a player using it all the time to get an advantage that dies bother me. I really get angry if I am running an adventure path or module and a player is reading it at home.