News on Monster Manual V

[hong]

Having worked with monster conversions since the inception of 3E, and being around the monster creation boards since that time, I can't imagine this being further from the truth. Adding class levels to a humanoid is ridiculously easy in comparison to trying to update a monster (successfully) to 3E.

Updating a monster to 3E is very easy once one realises that 3E works off very different implied principles to previous editions, and so much of the raw crunch doesn't actually need to be replicated with complete faithfulness. In fact, doing so can often lead to a sub-par monster. What's important is to look at the niche that the monster fills. That can be gaming niche (is it a big brute, an undead bloodsucker, or what), ecological niche (where does it live, what does it need to eat, breed and crap), or dramatic niche (is it going to be mostly a BBEG or a mook, what mythological/fictional sources are you drawing from).

Basically, RAW ogre mage = crappy. Mearlsified ogre mage = awesome.

 

[Razz]

Updating a monster to 3E is very easy once one realises that 3E works off very different implied principles to previous editions, and so much of the raw crunch doesn't actually need to be replicated with complete faithfulness. In fact, doing so can often lead to a sub-par monster. What's important is to look at the niche that the monster fills. That can be gaming niche (is it a big brute, an undead bloodsucker, or what), ecological niche (where does it live, what does it need to eat, breed and crap), or dramatic niche (is it going to be mostly a BBEG or a mook, what mythological/fictional sources are you drawing from).

Basically, RAW ogre mage = crappy. Mearlsified ogre mage = awesome.

Still, it's very hard no matter what. Take 10 people and have them convert any monster in 1E or 2E and you'll get 10 completely different versions of said converted creature. Take those same 10 and have them place 5 levels of Barbarian on an ogre and you'll have the same ogre no matter what, with the just different sets of abilities. Heck, pool all 10 together and you have an ogre battalion.

I'd much rather WotC write (or choose which one if others write it for them) their own take on a converted monster rather than look over a dozen other versions converted by others unofficially (though BOZ and Shade are the first guys I grab converted monsters from if I am really in a jam, like the 3 rilmani or missing yugoloths I've been begging WotC to do).

 

[hong]

Still, it's very hard no matter what. Take 10 people and have them convert any monster in 1E or 2E and you'll get 10 completely different versions of said converted creature.

Nothing wrong with that. The acid test is whether those 10 people could agree that the 9 versions besides their own are also reasonable representations for the monster in question. In the end it doesn't really matter what the exact stats are, as long as people are willing to use them.

Okay, so in reality, ego issues mean people are often very unlikely to say that any version except their own is good enough. Still doesn't matter. Just because Fred is unwilling to accept that any converted foo-bug except Fred's own is good enough, doesn't mean anyone else has to believe Fred.

I'd much rather WotC write (or choose which one if others write it for them) their own take on a converted monster rather than look over a dozen other versions converted by others unofficially

Er, who said anything about looking over a dozen versions? I can have my converted foo-bug. You can have your converted foo-bug. Neither of these might look anything like WotC's official converted foo-bug[tm][C][R]. And in the end, I might end up using my converted foo-bug anyway, and you might use your converted foo-bug. Doesn't make any difference to people who don't know us, who will be happy to buy and use WotC's official converted foo-bug[tm][C][R].

 

[Pants]

I'd much rather WotC write (or choose which one if others write it for them) their own take on a converted monster rather than look over a dozen other versions converted by others unofficially (though BOZ and Shade are the first guys I grab converted monsters from if I am really in a jam, like the 3 rilmani or missing yugoloths I've been begging WotC to do).

What's wrong with 'unofficial monsters?' I'd think that you'd be the first to jump out and support the 'unofficial' updates that exist out there in internetwurld.

With the way WotC handles some conversions, I'd be more apt to give the benefit of the doubt to some dude on the internet whose work I can probably peruse for free than to WotC who have a penchant for messing up older edition critters.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

More interested in MMV than I was before. Most likely not interested enough to get it, but I will at least flip through it at the bookstore. I would prefer new, interesting and logical critters and templates to seeing gnoll barbarian #4.

The Auld Grump

 

[blargney the second]

Mmmm.... templates.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Currently the only things I would have something against are the Greenspawn Zealot and the Illithid Cleric, which are already described as things that anyone who hated MMIV would hate in MMV. Though I'm still holding my judgement until I see what's in it...

Though those classed repeat monsters better have something really compelling before I'd like them. Like if there was a Yuan-Ti Dragon Shaman, it better have useful Dragon Shaman alternate class abilities. And that Phantom Ghast Ninja better have things beyond what a Ghast with ninja levels would have.

Granted I'm one of the many who does want to see a bunch of monsters from previous editions converted, because I feel cheated that they weren't converted.

 

[satori01]

The truth of the matter is that we listen to feedback, but the forums represent only one portion of our audience. There are tons and tons of gamers who don't come here and read the boards, or if they do read the boards they don't post.
Mike Mearls
[

I respect Mike, I generally agree with Mike's opinion, and I understand his dislike of Internet dialectic dynamics, however this old chestnet of "the people in the D&D forums on the internet do not represent the players of D&D" is getting old.

Two Words: Digital Initiative.

Again this is not personally directed at Mike, but the recent development with the DI and Dragon/Dungeon would say to me, that the powers that be at WOTC disagree with Mike.

 

[MerricB]

I personally think the Digital Initiative targets a different audience than those that read the forums - they may overlap, but they're not the same.

The DI will be for people who want information they can use in their game, rather than for people who want opinionated posts that may or may not be relevant.

Cheers!

 

[Arnwyn]

The DI will be for people who want information they can use in their game, rather than for people who want opinionated posts that may or may not be relevant.

Fascinating that you'd think they're mutually exclusive.

they may overlap,

That's quite the understatement.