[Nexus] Pilot checks

[Aussiegamer]

Ok this will be being put into my system but here is an idea for everyone else.

Instead of using pilot checks based solely on size of the vehicle why not use it's maneuverability?

This then removes size problems from pilot checks for moves and stunts. The size mod will stand for AC and to hit.

Notes:

I am going to make 10 different classes and gadgets will allow for some upgrading of the maneuverability.


UL craft start at the best.

If and UL is planetside then it will use the manueverability for the vehicle of that size, gadgets again will allow for better atmospheric turns.

If a planetside vehicle is off world then it becomes the best manueverability. This is mainly becuase of size factors.

Thoughts?

 

[Peterson]

I am a little confused by your wording, but overall it sounds like an idea I've been playing with.

Mainly that starships have seperate modifiers for atmo and for space...there's more to it than that, but that is the basics.

Peterson

 

[Aussiegamer]

Hum Ok I will try again.

Every ship right now has its size mod and is the same number used for the pilot mod for checks etc.

I think that it should be based on the manoeuvability of the ship not just the size.

Thus a dreadnaught would start at the worst class, say -10 checks, and could have thrusters put on the ship to improve the manoeuverability up one or two classes. So the check would improve to say -8 or -6.

My system only allows ultra light and light craft planet side. but this might change if I can get this sorted out better.

This is seperate from the size mod as this will stay constant due to the size of the craft, so it would still be taken into account for the final AC and to hit for the guns.

 

[TheNovaLord]

Hi

we have six pilot feats in our Black Nova 35, sci-fi d20 game. each one governs a ship size. For example
PILOT (Class I):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class I vessel, a shuttle for example.

Prerequisite: Int 13+, Dex 10, 1 rank in the pilot skill

Benefit: You make piloting rolls, and releated skills, at your full skill level.

Normal: Without this feat your are at -4 to all piloting rolls. If you are piloting a vessel you do not have the relevant feat for all combat rolls are at a penalty equal to twice the difference in Pilot Feat Class you and the vessel have. For example Sinclair the diplomat has rank II pilot feat. After a difficult negotiation he is trying to abscound in a Class III Transport. He is at -4 to all piloting rolls and (III-II) the ship is -2 to any combat rolls, even if another member of the crew is firing the weapons. If Sinclair where a pilot trying to fly a ship beyond his ability he will suffer a penalty to his combat pilot bonus.

Special: Pilots, Diplomats, Explorers, Mercenary Fighters and possibly Sci-Techs, and Privateers all start off with at least a Class I pilot feat. They have this even if they do not meet the prerequisites, as piloting a shuttle for example is all part of their daily role.

PILOT (Class II):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class II vessel, a heavy fighter, for example.

Prerequisite: 4 ranks in the pilot skill, Class I pilot Feat

Benefit: see Pilot class I Feat

Normal: see Pilot class I Feat

PILOT (Class III):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class III vessel, a medium transoprter, for example.

Prerequisite: 7 ranks in the pilot skill, Class II pilot Feat

Benefit: see Pilot class I Feat

Normal: see Pilot class I Feat

PILOT (Class IV):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class IV vessel, an assualt carrier, for example.

Prerequisite: 10 ranks in the pilot skill, Class III pilot Feat

Benefit: see Pilot class I Feat

Normal: see Pilot class I Feat

PILOT (Class V):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class V vessel, a heavy support vessel, for example.

Prerequisite: 13 ranks in the pilot skill, Class IV pilot Feat

Benefit: see Pilot class I Feat

Normal: see Pilot class I Feat

PILOT (Class VI):

You have sufficient expertise and training to pilot a class VI vessel, a conqueror planetary suppression ship, for example.

Prerequisite: 16 ranks in the pilot skill, Class V pilot Feat

Benefit: see Pilot class I Feat

Normal: see Pilot class I Feat

COMBAT
Defence value, or Armour Class, is the sum of



BASE This, like normal, is always a 10

SHIP SIZE Penalty due to great size, as normal

PILOT SKILL Portion of piloting skill total put into defence adds a insight bonus to AC

MANUEVERABILITY Engines and other factors add a dodge

SHIELDS Add a reflective bonus to AC

BATTLE COMPUTER Adds an enhancement bonus to defence, as normal



Offence value, Attack Bonus, is the sum of



ATTACK ROLL A single d20 dice roll, like normal

BAB+STAT BONUS Of the attacker, either in a turret (Dex) or fixed gun (Int)

PILOT SKILL Portion of piloting skill total put into attack adds a insight bonus to attack

WEAPON SIZE Penalty due to great size, as normal

RANGE Penalty due to distance, as normal

BATTLE COMPUTER Adds an enhancement bonus to attack, as normal



If a hit is scored, damage is rolled, and dependent on armour and shields and weapon type this damage will be reduced by DR.



Evasion. If a missile of torpedo has been a potential hit (in fact locked on), it can still be evaded. It is the sum of



PILOT SKILL Portion of piloting skill total put into defence adds a insight bonus to Evasion

MANUEVERABILITY Engines and other factors add a dodge

ANTI-MISSILE MEASURES Adds an deflection bonus to AC

 

[Aussiegamer]

Thank you for your reply, but I don't see that it has anything to do with the question.

Should craft manoeuverability be used instead of craft size?

All you have done is linked pilot skill to ship size but did not talk about the crafts ability to manoeuver thus making it easier for a pilot to "pilot" the craft. It is just putting vehicles in 6 catogories and then forcing pilots to spend six feats to fly the biggest craft. This means that only allows high level characters can fly the bigger ships.

My system allows a simple pilot to have one feat that allows them to fly a dreadnaught, it is not linked to increasing pilot skill ranks.

Some drivers never get a car licence and drive the huge double B rigs around.

It is a differing view but one that does not seem to address the issue for me. Again, thank you for your reply.

 

[TheNovaLord]

Hmm, ok


By default bigger ships are less manuverable, and yes in our system, it is harder to get all the feats for pilotting the bigger ships, so by default again less maueverable ships are harder to fly. You can fly a class VI ship with a class IV pilot feat, its just harder because of the complexity of the ship, bulk, it lack of manuverability.

we use proper classes not the sort of stuff used in d20 future so the pilot class gets automatic pilot feats so by around 7th level he has all six. An armsman (ie fighter) gets lots of feats so he too could turn himself into a pretty proficient pilot

what we use therefore answers your question with a yes and a no!!
Bigger craft are less maneuverable so both issues are linked and therefore affect pilot rolls.

You can get a car liscence and not have a clue how to drive 'fully efficiently' a big rig, so that why we shyed away from a one pilot feat fits all. By the time you get pilot feat 3 or 4 your pilot skill is likley that good you can bluff your way around flying something bigger. Someone who can pilot a shuttle barely, isnt gonna have a hope of guiding a battleship through nebulas, stargates, battelfields etc.

Did join your web forum and downloaded your word files. You have cetrainly put a lot of work into your game. I am lucky in a way that i sorted out my setting before putting in rules so i only deal with one time/progress level. I also have all newly made up races and no elves or magic etc, otherwise i guess i would have gone with dragonstar.

As an aside are you allowing any ship size to enter an 'atmopshere'? Something I thought about and decided to allow. What we do is give all atmosphres a rating in terms of a dice size (AR) ,Moon has an AR of 0, earth is d6, Jupiter is d12. You then roll a matrix between a pilot roll and an astronavigation roll, which generates a single number. You then roll the AR dice that many times, multiply by ship size and this indicates the amount of damage a ship takes entering the atmosphere. Bit complicated maybe but works very well and is a good way for a fighter to escape pursing corvettes.
I have stopped writng rules for the game now and am concentrating on adventures, and the odd new PC race as the party explores and dicovers them, and prestige classes, where cults, groups etc are encountered.
Keep up the good work!

regards
JohnD

 

[Aussiegamer]

Hmm, ok


By default bigger ships are less manuverable, and yes in our system, it is harder to get all the feats for pilotting the bigger ships, so by default again less maueverable ships are harder to fly. You can fly a class VI ship with a class IV pilot feat, its just harder because of the complexity of the ship, bulk, it lack of manuverability.

Yes true bigger ships are and thus they will be placed into differing move classes and have the ability to gain some upgrades for differing types of gadgets, such as thrusters or aerodynamic lines.

we use proper classes not the sort of stuff used in d20 future so the pilot class gets automatic pilot feats so by around 7th level he has all six. An armsman (ie fighter) gets lots of feats so he too could turn himself into a pretty proficient pilot

OK but you are using a completely different system

what we use therefore answers your question with a yes and a no!!
Bigger craft are less maneuverable so both issues are linked and therefore affect pilot rolls.

And that really was my point, it does not really answer my question for my system, or systems which are like it.

You can get a car liscence and not have a clue how to drive 'fully efficiently' a big rig, so that why we shyed away from a one pilot feat fits all. By the time you get pilot feat 3 or 4 your pilot skill is likley that good you can bluff your way around flying something bigger. Someone who can pilot a shuttle barely, isnt gonna have a hope of guiding a battleship through nebulas, stargates, battelfields etc.

It is a different way of looking at the same problem, but your system is heavily influenced by having a lot of feats and being high level to get your hands on the bigger ships.

Did join your web forum and downloaded your word files. You have cetrainly put a lot of work into your game. I am lucky in a way that i sorted out my setting before putting in rules so i only deal with one time/progress level. I also have all newly made up races and no elves or magic etc, otherwise i guess i would have gone with dragonstar.

Web forum?

I have put all my work at the d20projects.

As an aside are you allowing any ship size to enter an 'atmopshere'? Something I thought about and decided to allow. What we do is give all atmosphres a rating in terms of a dice size (AR) ,Moon has an AR of 0, earth is d6, Jupiter is d12. You then roll a matrix between a pilot roll and an astronavigation roll, which generates a single number. You then roll the AR dice that many times, multiply by ship size and this indicates the amount of damage a ship takes entering the atmosphere. Bit complicated maybe but works very well and is a good way for a fighter to escape pursing corvettes.

Hum sounds like a good idea, thicker the atmosphere the harder the moves, though I think a set number that then applies to all rolls.

I have stopped writng rules for the game now and am concentrating on adventures, and the odd new PC race as the party explores and dicovers them, and prestige classes, where cults, groups etc are encountered.
Keep up the good work!

regards
JohnD

Cheers, where is your work?
Rick

 

[Aussiegamer]

Some more thoughts

Have ten different classes, say -2 per class

a size gets assigned a class with gadgets allowing a limited upgrading of class.

include an atmospheric mod from 0 to -10, gadgets like aerodynamics would reduce this affect. (Thanks for the idea )

no limited number of turns per round, but every change of direction, due to a turn or stunt, would make the next turn or stunt harder.

So say a simple 45 degree turn is DC 5 pilot check, now it would be a mod of -1 to the pilot check. and a hard stunt is a DC15 is now a -4 mod.

So a pilot starts his movement ( 0 mods) doing a 45 degree turn (-1), an opposed roll of d20 plus GM mods compared to d20+pilot skill-craft man-other turning mods, if he succeeds then it works. Now for the next turn for the round he would keep the -1 for the simple 45 degree turn for the rest of that round.

If he fails the ship must move forward one square and he still gets the -1 mod for the rest of the round.

Thinking of having the final mod as a defence and to hit mod as well. But I would have to really think about it.

 

[TheNovaLord]

YES. You should base pilotting on maneuverability, not size, as you plan to do.


See, an answer!

Thing i like about what we are using is that space combat is pretty quick but has enough to it so it isnt too basic / foregone conclusion.

I have a mircrosoft groups page to upload stuff too, but the only part the 'party' really have access to is the basic races and 9 initial classes, plus any genetic engineering they wanna opt for plus any cybernetics they want. as they mix and match these means even the same race plus class can look very different if various augmentations are added.
I upload new gear, technology, races, prestige classes, ship types, alien monsters, etc as they encounter them which adds to the mystery for them. Only four players and me,and we have had maybe 10 sessions but everyone seems to be enjoying it.

doesnt seem to be a great deal of generic sci-fi around, and i wasnt keen in playing in someone elses world, so that was my motivation (dont mind borrowing others rules so the OGL was ideal).
Question you have probably answered before, what was your initial motivation to create Nexus? are you actually playing Nexus yet?

JohnD

 

[Aussiegamer]

YES. You should base pilotting on maneuverability, not size, as you plan to do.

See, an answer!

Thing i like about what we are using is that space combat is pretty quick but has enough to it so it isnt too basic / foregone conclusion.

Mine should be pretty quick as well, as the weapons should take down the same sized craft in around 6 to 8 rounds.

I have a mircrosoft groups page to upload stuff too, but the only part the 'party' really have access to is the basic races and 9 initial classes, plus any genetic engineering they wanna opt for plus any cybernetics they want. as they mix and match these means even the same race plus class can look very different if various augmentations are added.
I upload new gear, technology, races, prestige classes, ship types, alien monsters, etc as they encounter them which adds to the mystery for them. Only four players and me,and we have had maybe 10 sessions but everyone seems to be enjoying it.

Interesting idea.

doesnt seem to be a great deal of generic sci-fi around, and i wasnt keen in playing in someone elses world, so that was my motivation (dont mind borrowing others rules so the OGL was ideal).

Thats what I did as well.

Question you have probably answered before, what was your initial motivation to create Nexus? are you actually playing Nexus yet?

JohnD

Well I bought d20 future and the rules did not work, so I looked for a better system by making it myself. Too many systems where pretty much like d20F, like star wars.

I have yet to get a proper game going and so looking for feed back. But might soon.