Ninja kidnapping...

[Gynsala]

I think this is my first question to the whole board, so be kind to me...

I'm just curious as to what kind of checks you would think apply to two ninjas kidnapping a member of the party, horror movie style (noone realizes, suddenly you turn around and they are gone).

The party is walking down a 5 ft hallway, with the ninjas holding themselves up in the air between the walls. My questions are...

1)What would the spot check be to see them (any modifiers to the hide checks the ninja's make for simply being up in the air above line of sight)?

2)What would the listen checks be to hear the ninjas:
a)drop from the ceiling to the floor?
b)sneak attack the character in the back of the party with a silencing attack?
c)carry the character through a well oiled secret passage (assume the char is a wizard, or some other class with non-clanking armor)?

3)Would the character getting kidnapped be allowed to make any (maybe reflex save) attempt to alert their companions?

4)Assuming noone noticed anything, at what point does anyone notice that someone is missing? Wisdom checks? Until someone asks them a question in character?

5)How would you work this OOC? I'd think you'd roll a few dice and maybe pass a note to the person who got kidnapped. Maybe if you're being sneaky, ask them to get you a soda or do something else that requires them leaving the room, so noone realizes that the character has left as well...

Thanks!

 

[Infiniti2000]

1. I would probably not add any modifiers or at most +2 circumstance. Keep in mind though that they need concealment or cover (or some special ability) to hide, so if the party has bright light, they will automatically see them. The problem with giving a big modifier is that it assumes the party is much less inclined to look upwards, but I'm sure if you ask a leading question like "Are you looking up?" they will say yes. It won't be a good way to run it, so assume the PCs are looking equally in all directions (i.e. being careful).

2.a. It would be Listen vs. Move Silently. I'd give the ninjas a -1/foot of distance dropped (offset by some tumble check perhaps, say like +1 per Tumble over DC 20, to a maximum of the penalty).
b. If there's a silencing attack special ability, I'm sure it would say it. However, it would otherwise be treated as combat (DC -10). I belive the assassin can use a death attack quietly though, so check that out for an alternative.
c. Listen vs. Move Silently again. I'd allow a +5 circumstance bonus on the Move Silently due to the well-oiled passage.

3. They could talk as a free action if not immediately incapacitated, but that's it. The big question is 2b.

4. Good question, no idea.

5. Take the character aside. My players are good to do their best not to metagame too much. So, the other players wouldn't suddenly ask what happened. It depends on your group though.

 

[Nareau]

1)What would the spot check be to see them (any modifiers to the hide checks the ninja's make for simply being up in the air above line of sight)?

I'd resolve the spot check normally, and let the ninjas take 20 on thier hide check (assuming they have at least 20 minutes to hide).

2)What would the listen checks be to hear the ninjas:
a)drop from the ceiling to the floor?

The DC should just be their Move Silently check. Maybe give them a -2 penalty due to dropping, but let them negate that with a DC 10 Jump or Tumble check.

b)sneak attack the character in the back of the party with a silencing attack?
c)carry the character through a well oiled secret passage (assume the char is a wizard, or some other class with non-clanking armor)?

That's a tough one. You could have them make another MS check. I would instead have them make 1 check for the drop/attack/drag away maneuver.

3)Would the character getting kidnapped be allowed to make any (maybe reflex save) attempt to alert their companions?

No, assuming the attack itself silenced them.

4)Assuming noone noticed anything, at what point does anyone notice that someone is missing? Wisdom checks? Until someone asks them a question in character?

I'd have the group make another spot check 3 or so rounds after the person disappeared.

5)How would you work this OOC? I'd think you'd roll a few dice and maybe pass a note to the person who got kidnapped. Maybe if you're being sneaky, ask them to get you a soda or do something else that requires them leaving the room, so noone realizes that the character has left as well...

It depends a lot on the character/player. If it were one of my players, I'd have an index card with the following note: "Play it cool: You've just been totally kidnapped by ninjas! They're dragging you down a secret passage, and you can't make any noise. In about 30 seconds or so, stand up and walk into the bathroom. I'll come get you in a minute. In the meantime, don't let on that anything's wrong, but don't engage in any in-character speech."

There are really 2 ways to do this: One is the "by the book" way, that makes it almost guaranteed the kidnapping won't succeed. It entails a LOT of dice:

1) Ninjas make hide checks. Each PC gives 2 spot checks to see if they notice the ninjas.
2) Ninjas make move silently checks as they drop. Each PC gives 2 listen checks to see if they notice the ninjas.
3) Ninjas make move silently checks as they attack. Each PC gives 2 listen checks to see if they notice the ninjas.
4) Ninjas make attack rolls. The victim makes a Reflex save to see if they can shout a warning.
5) Assuming the ninjas succeed in attacking and silencing their victim, they must make grapple checks to try and move the PC. Each round, the other PC's should probably be making additional listen checks.

So we're looking at 50+ rolls, assuming a party of 4. Since there are 8 or 16 rolls happening each round to detect the ninjas, chances are that they're going to fail at least one of those contested rolls.

The other way would be more fluid, make it a doable maneuver, and require much less rolling:
1) Ninjas take 20 on their Sneak* checks. You secretly roll a single Perceive* check for each of the PC's.
2) Ninjas roll another Sneak check as they drop. Again, you roll a single Perceive* check for each PC.
3) Ninjas attack. Hopefully, they've thought this through--they'll either need to paralyze their victim, or grapple with them. They will likely want to attack from higher ground, charging (let them drop 10'), giving them a +3 on their touch attack. They then begin to grapple the target.

I would have 1 ninja do the attacking (and be very buffed), and the other ninja open/close the door and cover their escape.

Spider

* Sneak and Perceive replace the Hide, Move Silently, Spot, and Listen skills in our games.

 

[mikebr99]

I'd resolve the spot check normally, and let the ninjas take 20 on thier hide check (assuming they have at least 20 minutes to hide).

You can't "take 20"... the 20th minute isn't automatically a "20" roll... You roll a 20 at some point (totally random) during the 20 times you are trying the skill.

If you want to take you time to complete a skill, you "take 10".


Mike

 

[Delemental]

You can't "take 20"... the 20th minute isn't automatically a "20" roll... You roll a 20 at some point (totally random) during the 20 times you are trying the skill.

If you want to take you time to complete a skill, you "take 10".

Actually, Taking 10 doesn't use up any extra time. Taking 20 requires 20 times as much time as normal.

A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions and eliminate the luck factor.

Taking 10
When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

Taking 20
When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.

Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

 

[Gynsala]

b. If there's a silencing attack special ability, I'm sure it would say it. However, it would otherwise be treated as combat (DC -10). I belive the assassin can use a death attack quietly though, so check that out for an alternative.

There is a silencing attack special ability, but it seems more toward keeping the spellcaster or bard from speaking for one round than towards attacking silently and kidnapping someone. At least, that's how it was in 3.0, haven't seen any new ninja rules yet.

I really like the Sneak and Perceive rolls, I'll have to start using that in the future. Makes a lot more sense.

And you can take the 20 on any roll that doesn't have an immediate penalty (like climbing). Although, this sorta is climbing... eh, whatever, I'm sure the PC's will ignore that bush placed randomly in the corridor...