NO character concept what so ever, ahhh the freedom.

[nsruf]

That is only true if you want to take the PrC at the lowest level available. You could just take it a bit later then it normally would be available.

Sure, but if I let my character grow "organically", taking whatever abilities seem "right" at the time, this can be rather frustrating. And "a bit later" can mean taking as many additional levels as the minimum required to enter, if a lot of feats are required.

 

[Henry]

I have to second Sagan's post. There's nothing wrong with taking a Prestige class later than the absolute first time you can. I don't know any of our group that does this. We take a PrC when we feel ready to - if ever. The problem comes when some 3rd party d20 PrC's are very unbalanced, and just "too sweet" to pass up. In my opinion, anything that predictates your desire to get into it as fast as possible needs to be looked at and possibly reworked.

Otherwise, is there REALLY that strong a desire to get to a PrC at 5th level rather than 7th or even 9th or 10th? If so, it needs to be hard-looked at, because there's something in there that makes the options of the base character classes pale by comparison. Frankly, I think many of the PrC's in Tome and Blood have that problem.

 

[WizarDru]

The problem seems to be that there are a lot of technical prerequisites for entering PrC and virtually no roleplaying requirements. So people focus on the game mechanics - and these force you to start planning early on for most PrC.

...

I wonder what could be done to improve this. Cutting back on mechanical prereqs in exchange for more in-game requirements is probably the way to go.

I strongly disagree. That's forcing a particular playstyle to enforce balance, and it doesn't work for a system as a whole. For individual groups, perhaps, but I think that DM flexibility is more valuable than either option. RP-requirements also put the burden on the DM more than the player, IMHO.

Prestige classes are an optional part of the game, and I've seen enough examples of multiclassing done right (such as the recent urban characters article in Dragon 306) to see how you could do a campaign without PrCs at all, if you so desired. You would still get some variety to the organizations, but require no PrCs at all.

 

[nsruf]

I have to second Sagan's post. There's nothing wrong with taking a Prestige class later than the absolute first time you can.

My problem with PrC is not that I have to work for them, but that most of the work involves meta-game concerns like taking the right feats and skills. The only time a character I played for some time (as opposed to creating a high-level PC) was able to qualify for a PrC was when I planned it right from the beginning.

 

[nsruf]

I strongly disagree. That's forcing a particular playstyle to enforce balance, and it doesn't work for a system as a whole.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of house-ruling it. I certainly don't expect 3.5 to contain anything like that.

 

[Drawmack]

BTW: For those who like RP restrictions I suggest the quintesential series from Mongoose. They actually incorporate role playing into the rules with what they call class paths.

I do agree that RP should not be a prerequisite for things within the basic game system, because it restricts the game system.

However, I see nothing wrong with and even encourage optional books to have those options.

 

[fett527]

I would certainly agree with the heart of this thread: not having a predetermined path towards a Prestige Class or a class for that matter. Roleplay your character and adjust to the circumstances just like life. However I disagree with statements like

I agree completely. In my current campaign we all made up characters with one rule no back story. Now at almost fourth level I've decided on a PrC but it took that long.

How could you not have a backstory? How can you not define the type of family your character grew up with? Who his parents were? Who were or are his friends? What shaped his attitudes and personality, etc? I can't really understand if your going into a serious long term campaign how you could not define these things. If it's a dungen hack one shot then I can understand.

You can have a backstory and not have a mathematically mapped out Prestige class path for your character and in my opinon you have to have a backstory to understand why the character is what he is.

 

[Drawmack]

First: I normally require a backstory. However out current campaign was an experiment. We all take turns DMing, with me as the head DM and the right to call for group votes and overrule other DMs when they do something stupid. We also just wanted to get started so it was roll up a character and play, that's why there is no backstory. I think I've been slightly misunderstood. Everyone has some character concept or idea of where there character came from but there is no fledged out backstory.

For example:
I am a dwarven cleric of Moadin (sp.). I was orphaned at a young age when my parents were killed by raiding orcs and raised by the church. So now I adventure to spread the word of moradin and avenge my parents death by vanquishing the world of all chaos and evil.

Another player is a human fighter. He wanted to be a palidin but didn't make the grade. However, he is still convinced he is a paladin in training and acts accordingly. In other words he has all the restricitons of a paladin (code, etc.) but none of the drawbacks.

So we have some kind of backstory. But nothing really fleshed out.

 

[fett527]

Thanks for the clarify Drawmack.


And I certainly agree with the fact that most PrCs are organizations, but not all. Some can come from the natural progression of the character. I'm looking at the Foehunter PrC right now as possibility for a character if circumstances continue on that path. The character is 7th level and I just started to consider a PrC for him. My DM and I have looked at the Foehunter and if the events in the campaign continue on their present course then the PrC would make sense for the character as a natural progression from his backstory and happennings in the game. I don't agree with people, most of the time, creating a character with a PrC as a goal from the beginning.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

And those janitors had their eyes on that from childhood as well.

But I don't play d&d to be the equivilant of a janitor.

You, yourself said the game is supposed to be realistic.

Oh ho ho. I was being heavily sarcastic. It is a game. It is a not a life simulator. Realism tends to be ugly, complicated, and sometimes a bit boring. Realism can bite my big toe.

. Okay a player wants a PrC which needs +8 ranks in Hide. Though they have never hidden in game they keep their ranks in this skill maxed so that they can get into this PrC.

The odds are the PrC then (if designed well) revolves a bit around hiding- why would the pc be going for it if they don't hide in the first place? If it is poor design, then fix it for your campeign.

Yes there are prerequisites, but those are purly mechanical when encourages munchkining and class paths. I was stating why I don't like class paths.

That just sums up your argument. You don't like it- so obviously it is just for munchkins and such.



SD