No experience for summoned creatures?

[Jhamin]

Remember that XP is given out per encounter.

If the party is fighting a summoner then all the beasts he summons are extensions of his abilities. As such they are not worth extra Xp.

On the other hand if you find yourself fighting off Invisible Stalkers left and right while the summoner is miles away I as the DM might be convinced that the encounter is really with an Invisible Stalker and not a summoner, awarding XP appropriatly.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

So by that line of reasoning, you're saying that if I were to cast Blindness on someone, and they ran far enough away, the Blindness would be instantly dispelled?

I believe you're reading the SRD Range quote out of context. In the case of a summons, it only applies to the point of origin upon the moment of casting, not the entire duration of the spell.

Eh, maybe you're right.

--Conceding Spikey

 

[Umbran]

Methinks simple semantics solves the original question - what constitutes an encounter with the summoner?

Let usput aside teh question of spell range for just a moment. Assume the following is legal - the summoner is half a mile away from the party, summons some critters, and sends them out to fight the party. Can the party really be said to have encountered the summoner? I don't think so. If they don't actually encounter him, you shouldn't work the XP as if they did.

If the summoner shows his face, and gives the party a chance to defeat him, then it is an encounter with the summoner, and the spell's rules for XP apply. If the party never sees him, or specifically isn't given a chance to defeat him, then it is an encounter with some creatures (who just happen to be summoned), and you get XP for them accordingly.

 

[Archer]

I'm pretty sure there is a specific ruling about summon spells or some example in print somewhere. The only summon spell that goes beyond range is creeping doom and it rapidly disappears as it goes beyond the range.

 

[Galfridus]

There are a lot of range and LOS "common sense" issues in 3E; for example the Nightmare spell, which as written requires LOS.

I give XP for summoned creatures if the summoner is not part of the encounter -- but if the PCs had a chance to fight the summoner, then no XP for them.

Example: The PCs fought a barbazu which summoned a pal to help with the fight. Because the PCs fought defensively, they missed out on chances to track down the original barbazu -- and so ended up killing the summoned one twice (the encounter took multiple days). I awarded XP only for the original barbazu.

Example: The PCs fought two invisible stalkers, sent by an unknown agent. They had no way of identifying the summoner, let alone attacking them, so they got full XP for each stalker.

 

[Uller]

So by that line of reasoning, you're saying that if I were to cast Blindness on someone, and they ran far enough away, the Blindness would be instantly dispelled?

No. Blindness has a Target...not an Effect. Similar spells would be Bull's Strength or Blur. Obviously these are not dispelled when the target goes out of range. Effects are things produced by the spell and those things cannot go beyond the spells range(in general). Some spells may have specific exceptions to this general rule, but Summon Monster is not one.

 

[Greatwyrm]

A question...

For those who feel summoned creatures should give XP...

Do you feel a party should get the amount of experience awarded for encountering a 5d6 Fireball trap if a fifth-level wizard casts Fireball on them?

 

[Ristamar]

Considering the ultra-weak duration of all Summon spells (1 round/level), I'd probably count it as an encounter with the Summoner (even though the party might not know that). Taking duration into considering this, it's unlikely that the summoned creatures will be located very far from the summoner, unless he's some total nutball sorceror that walks/flies/teleports around and randomly casts Extended Summon Monster spells all day. Even under those rare (and very odd) circumstances they wouldn't be around very long.

If the critters were walking around for days or weeks at a time, I might reconsider, but that's not feasible under the current rules/summon spells.

 

[Ristamar]

No. Blindness has a Target...not an Effect. Similar spells would be Bull's Strength or Blur. Obviously these are not dispelled when the target goes out of range. Effects are things produced by the spell and those things cannot go beyond the spells range(in general). Some spells may have specific exceptions to this general rule, but Summon Monster is not one.

Bull's Strength and Blur don't have a target? That's news to me!

Bull's Strength

Transmutation
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Strength 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

 

[AuraSeer]

The way I read it, the book says that with respect to experience, to treat Summon spells identically to other spells. That's how I try to play it.

Say the NPC wizard spots the party from a half-mile away, and casts one spell before fleeing. Maybe he casts Summon Monster VI to bring in a Large fire elemental, and sends it to attack the party. Or maybe he instead casts a quadruple-range Fireball, which is also a sixth-level spell (by means of Enlarge Spell).

Would you give the party experience for getting hit with the Fireball? I would probably treat it as if they'd set off a trap; their actions (approaching the wizard) triggered a damaging effect, which happened once and then was done. Since it makes sense for Fireball, I'd try to use the same reasoning for Summon Monster.

(Another way of looking at it: the party doesn't have to fight a summoned creature. A Dispel Magic would get rid of it, or they could just run away and wait for the duration to expire. Would you give experience for either of those actions? I wouldn't.)